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Denobulan, Vulcan and human sexuality; bonding

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Human Sexuality.
For a change. :)

So Archer is a jerk and Erika has no pride.
Double standards! I say they are 2 consenting adults.
My memory is fuzzy but tells me she uses him at least as much as he uses her, if we want to use dirty words.
Maybe Archer can turn it off and on like a spigot But that make him a cold guy if he can stiff arm the woman he is having an intimate affair with just because he now outranks her. What in Hell happend to a Man and a Woman? Rather than to it all depends on Rank.

Doesn't look good for the Humans.
Those remarks deny Erika any control over her love life. I don't see it that way. Women like her are more independent than that.

The two are just being opportunistic in their brief reunion.
Our careers take care of turning us off, pulling us apart. A Starfleet captain is supposed to put duty first. They both accept that.

I liked that episode. I didn't find it sordid at all. Just sad they had to say goodbye in the end.
 
Ria75. I didn't say it was sordid.

I did say that I cannot see a man who apparently was having n intimate affair that seemed to have lasted some time stop if beccause of Rank.

If he had broken it off because he knew he was going to ship out in a while and that he would be too busy to contiue to see her before he left I can see him telling her that he would try to make it up to her wwhen he returned if she still felt that they still cared about one another to resume the affair.

Not just I am a Captain now. I outrank you so that is it. see you around.

You ever had your head handed to you on a platter? It hurts like Hell but it is better if the reason is somewhat logical.

So what happens if Erika comes up Preggers and Archer is made an Admiral while she is carrying said child. Does he tell her. too bad lady I am an Admiral now and you are just a Captain.

Still say that Archer was a Cold Jerk for the way he treated Erika.
 
OK, Penguin, perhaps I shouldn't have said 'sordid'. I was paraphrasing as best I could.
I wouldn't like to sound like I am harassing a junior officer. :p

I don't remember the episode well, but I believe you are speculating on back story. We don't really know all that went down between them and how they broke up.

Besides, I think that in case of inter-rank relationships, people look the other way as long as discretion is maintained. There must have been other reasons. I think the relationship was probably not that strong. Which makes the casual encounter in the episode easier. Easy come, easy go. Although there is also a potential for a serious relationship. It's a matter of priorities. To those 2, career comes first. They happen to like each other and if their priorities changed, they would be each other's first choice. They are just not passionate about each other.

I seem to remember there was chemistry. But we're talking about people governed by reason and even if Erika suffers more than Jon, she's a cool-headed captain who can handle it. If he had completely broken her heart before, would she come back for seconds? You say she has no pride. She doesn't seem like that kind of woman. You don't know that she got her heart broken in the first place. You don't know that Jon was as brutal as you say. You don't know the circumstances. You only know how little they say.

For the sake of argument, a pregnant captain loses command (if only temporarily) and the problem solves itself.
And isn't the problem mostly for people who are within the same chain of command, not just of different ranks and from different postings??

Anyway, I don't care much about this and I admit I am not comfortable discussing an episode I haven't seen again yet. Use it to foil my arguments if you will, I'm too tired to care.

I just don't like to see female pride insulted - or women clichéed to all be sensitive and romantic. I believe that men's feelings are just as sensitive as women's as a whole.
 
ria, I'm so sorry but I've not checked TrekBBS until just now...and I still don't have private message capacity, yet, alas...looks like you made Commander before I did, good for you! :P

And yes, you can most certainly be my pen-pal.


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They wouldn't have worked, Erika and Archer. Erika was the captain of the NX-02, right?

I mean, shouldn't captains be more in love with their ships than others? Compare Kirk over and over throughout TOS...
 
This might help...a little. Star Trek was typically vague about fraternization policy and such. A couple of dialogue passages from "Home"...

Archer and Erika's reunion in the bar:

ERIKA: Earth's been holding its breath for the past year, wondering if the Xindi were going to come back and finish the job. On the bright side, there've been more weddings and births than ever before.
ARCHER: I don't see a ring.
ERIKA (lightly): I'm married to Starfleet. Just like you.

Archer and Erika in the mountains, the morning after, admiring the vista together:

ERIKA: Why did we stop seeing each other?
ARCHER: Well, I was your superior officer. It wasn't appropriate.
 
I thought most of Home was silly and poorly thought out. I didn't find Archer and Erika's "romance" particularly romantic. In fact, it seemed to be a "fix" for Archer's behavior from season 3 ... which makes no sense: it's unrealistic and un-dramatic.

Sure, if you're having a tough time in life, no doubt you'll go seek sex, maybe even from an old flame or friend. But it's not going to fix your life problems. And how boring to have an entire season build up drama for its main character, how he's sacrificed his soul to destroy the Xindi weapon and save Earth, only to have it halted in one episode, never to be brought up again. Dumb.

Enterprise's writers couldn't seem to get "romance" right ... and worse, they sacrificed character development for poorly written romance.

I mean, shouldn't captains be more in love with their ships than others? Compare Kirk over and over throughout TOS...
Considering that Kirk and Rand nearly had a romance, until the actress who played Rand left TOS, I don't think so. More over, Picard had love interests. Janeway had a long-time boyfriend.
 
Good Comentary.

Far as I am concerned subject closed as Hopeful romantic confirmed what I said that Archer cut off the relationship because he was a superior officer and it wouldn't be appropriate in his view.
 
Far as I am concerned subject closed as Hopeful romantic confirmed what I said that Archer cut off the relationship because he was a superior officer and it wouldn't be appropriate in his view.
For the record, Penguin, I posted that dialogue from "Home" to clarify a point of discussion. Aside from that, our respective views of Archer, especially regarding his moral and ethical character, appear to be quite different.
 
Hopefulromantic. I was not questioning his ethical and moral character. I was just questioning it in this instance. The character may have thought he had valid reason for ending the affair for all I know.

I just believe that it was a very poor reason for ending a relationship.

Other than that I have nothing to say on the Archer Character's Moral and ethical posture.
 
ria, I'm so sorry but I've not checked TrekBBS until just now...and I still don't have private message capacity, yet, alas...looks like you made Commander before I did, good for you! :P
Hi, friend. It's time you made it back. I was giving up on you precisely today. And you came back yesterday! I hadn't noticed.
A LOT has happened since last you were here.

shouldn't captains be more in love with their ships than others?
:guffaw: So true.


ERIKA: Why did we stop seeing each other?
ARCHER: Well, I was your superior officer. It wasn't appropriate.
So he already was her superior officer during the relationship. At first, it didn't stop them, but after a while, they could break it off. Call it interpretation if you will, but it's the only way I understand it. The man didn't suddenly end his relationship when he got promoted. Besides, she says "Why did we stop seeing each other?", not "Why did you break up with me?"

Sometimes all it takes is the love of a good woman. ;)
Seconded.
 
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Back to Human Sexuality.

Hoshi had a one night stand on the Pleasure Planet.

Seems a bit out of character as far as I am concerned

It may be that I might exault human females too much.

Heard an interview by Linda Park and she says she thought HOshi was a bit timid.

So, if she was timid cannot see her hopping in bed with some guy she just met the previous noon. She would be a bit more cautious.
 
Back to Human Sexuality.

Hoshi had a one night stand on the Pleasure Planet.

Seems a bit out of character as far as I am concerned

Why? Is she not a woman? Does she not have needs and urges? And why do people go to Risa anyway? :)
 
If Hoshi had needs and urges she had a whole ship full of males to satisfy them. At least she would have known those guys for some time.

True, hopping into bed on Risa would be a bit more careful because it would not become known as would a fling on Board Enterprise.

but on Enterprise she could have kept up a careful and discreet intimate affair if she desired.

She still would have those needs and urges. would she have to wait for a few years before she came back to Risa to get her Ashes Hauled?
 
Some women have a thing against relationships with co-workers because of how akward it could be if the relationship fails. If she just wanted a fling, then something like what happened would have been ideal for her.
 
Some women have a thing against relationships with co-workers because of how awkward it could be if the relationship fails. If she just wanted a fling, then something like what happened would have been ideal for her.

Exactly! And what better place in the galaxy for that than Risa? :)
Btw, I've been wondering... Why hasn't anyone told Trip & Reed about those jamaharon dolls? Would have saved them the trouble... :cool:
 
Captain X. Why did T-Pol seduce Trip then?

Cannot remember if it was on Enterprise or one of the other series but I believe there was reference to affairs going on amonst the crew.

Oh yes, Phlox was talking to someone in the mess hall and he said that two of the Crew sitting nearby wre going to mate very soon.

Also in one of the series there was a few pregnacies on board caused by relationships between crew memebers.

So, if those people could do it why not Hoshi?
 
Captain X. Why did T-Pol seduce Trip then?

Cannot remember if it was on Enterprise or one of the other series but I believe there was reference to affairs going on amonst the crew.

Oh yes, Phlox was talking to someone in the mess hall and he said that two of the Crew sitting nearby wre going to mate very soon.

Also in one of the series there was a few pregnacies on board caused by relationships between crew memebers.

So, if those people could do it why not Hoshi?
I think it obvious why T'pol chose Trip to experiment with---she knew in drug state he enjoyed casual sex with different species and was not likely to deny her despite his feelings towards Vulcans in general.

Captain X not only women are adverse to workplace relationships---many men are as well. I am thinking Hoshi needed more than physical fulfillment unlike season 3 T'Pol who was looking for a situation she could control.
 
I think it obvious why T'pol chose Trip to experiment with---she knew in drug state he enjoyed casual sex with different species and was not likely to deny her despite his feelings towards Vulcans in general.

Captain X not only women are adverse to workplace relationships---many men are as well. I am thinking Hoshi needed more than physical fulfillment unlike season 3 T'Pol who was looking for a situation she could control.

If T'pol was really merely experimenting, wouldn't it then be more logical to do it with someone who was not likely to develop an emotional attachment? At that point (Harbinger) T'pol already suspected that Trip had feelings for her, so she should have known that sleeping with him would only mess things up for both of them, and compromise their professional relationship.
(That whole "exploring human sexuality" thing was IMO way too irresponsible on her part, especially when taking into account the fact that Trip was in the early stages of a romance with another woman).

Hoshi, on the other hand, was smart enough not to mix business and pleasure, and decided to relieve some tension the best way possible - with a (nice) guy she'll never have to see again. I don't see a problem with that.
 
If T'pol was really merely experimenting, wouldn't it then be more logical to do it with someone who was not likely to develop an emotional attachment? At that point (Harbinger) T'pol already suspected that Trip had feelings for her, so she should have known that sleeping with him would only mess things up for both of them, and compromise their professional relationship.
Keep in mind that T'Pol did not use the word "experiment." She went so far as to tell Trip that she wouldn't use that term.

One could argue that T'Pol chose Trip precisely because he had feelings for her--and because she was acting on her feelings for him, as a result of her jealousy of Cole. Viewers hadn't been made aware at this point that T'Pol was taking trellium-D, and accessing emotions that were new to her. One could theorize that she wasn't prepared for the consequences of feeling those emotions, or acting on them. Somehow I don't think "Dealing With Emotions 101" is something they were teaching kids on Vulcan. :p

And her morning-after characterization of that night with Trip as "exploring human sexuality"? I didn't buy it. By the end of that scene, I don't think Trip bought it either, bless his heart. I think T'Pol was backpedaling to keep from admitting that she had gotten in way over her head, emotionally speaking, and didn't know how to deal with it.

Just my .02
 
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