Same here. Left me wondering why it took BBC America to commission it.
Spoilers Demons of the Punjab grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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They're talking about airing it much closer to the American air date, so I assume it will be week by week.
Money probably. Remember BBCAmerica is a completely different entity than The BBC. One can recoup costs through advertising and subscription charges, the other, not so much.
I'm not entirely sure on the dynamics of these things now with BBC Studio's, but The Night Manager was a joint venture between BBC and AMC.
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Oh, I thought it was a BBC Studios production and therefore assumed The BBC were making money from international sales regardless. I didn't realise it was produced by someone else.
Anyway, back to Doctor Who, with apologies for derailing. I know people have said they also thought this might be predestination stuff but at the point where the watch broke I did think grandma's "I'll tell you when you're older." stuff at the start was a hint toward the fact she knew Yaz would be visiting the past in the future and wanted to wait until she had been. I guess Yasmin is a popular name and 70 years is a long time to remember someone's face, especially when you've seen a child grow in to that face over their lifetime, you would at least think your memory was suspect.
That website isn't including 4 screen data. Episode 5 is at 7.76m with it and Splisbury is calculating that episode 6 will get around 7.5m with it.
You do realise the overnights are currently higher than the average final rating for the previous series. It's also been in the top 10 shows for the week in every week so far.so trying to claim it as some disaster just to back up your own view won't wash.
Great analysis, Starkers.
While BBC ratings are good indicators, it's important to note that the success of a series is much different today. Not only with iPlayer and DVRs, but also iTunes season passes & episode buys, international sales of the series and the ratings there. When Capaldi's numbers dipped down I recall someone noted that the series' international success was carrying it quite well. Indeed, I remember seeing some Facebook rants on the Doctor Who page from folks who believed BBC America shouldn't dictate Doctor Who's direction!
While BBC ratings are good indicators, it's important to note that the success of a series is much different today. Not only with iPlayer and DVRs, but also iTunes season passes & episode buys, international sales of the series and the ratings there. When Capaldi's numbers dipped down I recall someone noted that the series' international success was carrying it quite well. Indeed, I remember seeing some Facebook rants on the Doctor Who page from folks who believed BBC America shouldn't dictate Doctor Who's direction!
Anyone who claims that a program in the weekly top 10 is 'in trouble' is pushing an agenda not supported by the facts.
What that agenda could be? Who can say?
What that agenda could be? Who can say?
Well I'm watching on Amazon, I purchased this whole season, so I don't think my viewings will even show up in BBC ratings, I wonder how many others are like myself?
Well anyway, I'm a first time Doctor Who watcher, because I've never had an interest in this show before, and so far I'm loving this season and I'm glad I'm watching. I thought Demons of the Punjab was a wonderful episode and was very insightful.
I feel a big theme is how "history is wrong", and not what you think it is. And I feel the aliens are part of that too, because the Doctor had her history knowledge saying they're assassins, but she was wrong in her understanding, they're observers (at least now), but again you can see your perceptions can very easily be wrong.
I loved how Yas thought she knew her grandmother's history, and she had some information, but she was greatly mistaken and she learned what really happened when she saw it. I feel most of us have learned things about history, but also so many details are missing, and you have limited perspectives, and I feel if you were to go back to your favorite moments from history and observe, you'd see things happened quite differently than you always believed.
I don't at all believe she's ineffectual, I feel that's sort of a limited way of looking at things, I think she shows great wisdom realizing sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing. She understood how her meddling could make things worse, and she shows great restraint to make sure things work out right, even after her first instinct was to fight those aliens and to try to keep them out, she accepted they're not there to change anything. I feel it's very nice to have a change of pace like that with a different kind of lesson, you know?
And I do feel there's a villain, I mean what about Prem's brother? And more generally, just basic hate as a villain, since he died for no reason really. He's a good man, he's fought for his country (one of his murderers even was a soldier who fought with him!), he loves his family, but he died because some men just have so much hate for others, his death is really tragic because of how pointless it is.
I felt it's powerful how they couldn't watch, and I feel that's sort of the point. Sometimes something is just so horrible you have to turn away, and everyone does, and that's why those aliens are there: because when we as humans turn our eyes away from what we don't want to see, they will be there for us to carry that burden we're too weak to carry, and I thought that's rather beautiful.
Well anyway, I'm a first time Doctor Who watcher, because I've never had an interest in this show before, and so far I'm loving this season and I'm glad I'm watching. I thought Demons of the Punjab was a wonderful episode and was very insightful.
I feel a big theme is how "history is wrong", and not what you think it is. And I feel the aliens are part of that too, because the Doctor had her history knowledge saying they're assassins, but she was wrong in her understanding, they're observers (at least now), but again you can see your perceptions can very easily be wrong.
I loved how Yas thought she knew her grandmother's history, and she had some information, but she was greatly mistaken and she learned what really happened when she saw it. I feel most of us have learned things about history, but also so many details are missing, and you have limited perspectives, and I feel if you were to go back to your favorite moments from history and observe, you'd see things happened quite differently than you always believed.
I don't at all believe she's ineffectual, I feel that's sort of a limited way of looking at things, I think she shows great wisdom realizing sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing. She understood how her meddling could make things worse, and she shows great restraint to make sure things work out right, even after her first instinct was to fight those aliens and to try to keep them out, she accepted they're not there to change anything. I feel it's very nice to have a change of pace like that with a different kind of lesson, you know?
And I do feel there's a villain, I mean what about Prem's brother? And more generally, just basic hate as a villain, since he died for no reason really. He's a good man, he's fought for his country (one of his murderers even was a soldier who fought with him!), he loves his family, but he died because some men just have so much hate for others, his death is really tragic because of how pointless it is.
I felt it's powerful how they couldn't watch, and I feel that's sort of the point. Sometimes something is just so horrible you have to turn away, and everyone does, and that's why those aliens are there: because when we as humans turn our eyes away from what we don't want to see, they will be there for us to carry that burden we're too weak to carry, and I thought that's rather beautiful.
I plan on getting the iTunes season pass sometime this week, after a passing interest in the previous 4 Doctors, I suppose it'll be shown as some level of financial support anyway.
When you're talking about not changing history, that's not wisdom, just a no brainer!
Yup, exactly this. There is great power in recognizing restraint is the right thing to do and not to get involved. That was a lesson The Next Generation often taught, too.
Watched it last night; we both enjoyed it. It was a nice "historical" piece--reminds of the original series, in a way. Not as emotionally impactful as "Rosa" was for me, but pretty close. I really enjoyed the guest characters and thought the story was handled well. I give it an 8.
A
Amaris
Guest
This is my favorite episode of the season. Firstly, for making me aware of something I didn't know: I had no idea that there was actually a partition. I did wonder why India and Pakistan were often at odds with one another, and this explains a lot. Before you ask, yes, world history in most U.S. schools is really that bad, or at the very least, my school was dreadful, if nowhere else.
Secondly, the human factor brought it home. Even though I know little of the culture, I know human beings being shoved apart by sectarian violence, boundaries being created overnight so that loved ones became "us vs. them," and how the justification for murder and violence is given full weight at the mere word of those who benefit the most from it.
I think the Doctor handled it about as best as she could, and we got to see Yas getting a real, full on episode for herself. It had many tender moments, it had the pain of being separated from the one you love by sheer human stupidity and shortsightedness, and it had the hope of endurance, the hope of love, as spoken by the Doctor herself.
So yes, this is my favorite episode of the season. Now, that being said, I'm going to go study more about partition. With it so recent in world history, I am disappointed that I know nothing about it.
Secondly, the human factor brought it home. Even though I know little of the culture, I know human beings being shoved apart by sectarian violence, boundaries being created overnight so that loved ones became "us vs. them," and how the justification for murder and violence is given full weight at the mere word of those who benefit the most from it.
I think the Doctor handled it about as best as she could, and we got to see Yas getting a real, full on episode for herself. It had many tender moments, it had the pain of being separated from the one you love by sheer human stupidity and shortsightedness, and it had the hope of endurance, the hope of love, as spoken by the Doctor herself.
So yes, this is my favorite episode of the season. Now, that being said, I'm going to go study more about partition. With it so recent in world history, I am disappointed that I know nothing about it.
Another great episode. I loved the Doctor’s “Imagine a universe without a Yaz” line.
This and Rosa feel timely.
This and Rosa feel timely.
Doctor Who '11.06' Demons of the Punjab' review
The sixth episode of Series 11. Yas is curious about her grandmother's past after she says that she was the first woman to be married in Pakistan. However, she, the Doctor and the other two find themselves in over their heads, landing during the Partition of India. Overall this was a rather good story, which shows many sides to human nature, both the good and the bad. Yas is surprised to find that her Nana Umbreen is indeed getting married, but to Prem, who isn't her grandfather. A rather large surprise.
A larger surprise is the presence of 'demons'. The Thijarians, who the Doctor recognises as a race of assassins, and who Prem had seen during his World War II service, fighting in Singapore. The investigations of the Thijarian ship was done rather well. As was the Doctor confronting them about what she thought they were doing. (Whittaker is really coming into her own.) However, that isn't the 'jist' of this story. Something tragic was going to happen on the day of Partition, to separate Prem and Umbreen.
Hatreds on all sides. Between Hindus and Muslims, the underlying political stresses that had lead to Partition. And Prem's younger brother Manish had been listening to 'angry men on the radio', Hindu nationalist rhetoric. Passions were being stirred on both sides, against the other... Thus Prem and Umbreen are caught in the middle. A victim is claimed, a Hindu holy man who was going to officiate at their wedding. The way the Doctor works out that it was Manish who killed him was rather well done.
Thus it leads to a devastating conclusion, where Manish leads others to the farm, leading Umbreen to flee into the new Pakistan, and to Prem's death. His line “This isn't what I fought for,” is quite poignant given this aired on Armistice Day (or the day after Remembrance Day, as it is called in Australia). The cinematography of the shot, as the trigger is pulled on Prem, and then the focus shifts to Team TARDIS as they hear the shot as they walk away, was quite sad, and well done. Overall a very good episode. 9.25/10.
The sixth episode of Series 11. Yas is curious about her grandmother's past after she says that she was the first woman to be married in Pakistan. However, she, the Doctor and the other two find themselves in over their heads, landing during the Partition of India. Overall this was a rather good story, which shows many sides to human nature, both the good and the bad. Yas is surprised to find that her Nana Umbreen is indeed getting married, but to Prem, who isn't her grandfather. A rather large surprise.
A larger surprise is the presence of 'demons'. The Thijarians, who the Doctor recognises as a race of assassins, and who Prem had seen during his World War II service, fighting in Singapore. The investigations of the Thijarian ship was done rather well. As was the Doctor confronting them about what she thought they were doing. (Whittaker is really coming into her own.) However, that isn't the 'jist' of this story. Something tragic was going to happen on the day of Partition, to separate Prem and Umbreen.
Hatreds on all sides. Between Hindus and Muslims, the underlying political stresses that had lead to Partition. And Prem's younger brother Manish had been listening to 'angry men on the radio', Hindu nationalist rhetoric. Passions were being stirred on both sides, against the other... Thus Prem and Umbreen are caught in the middle. A victim is claimed, a Hindu holy man who was going to officiate at their wedding. The way the Doctor works out that it was Manish who killed him was rather well done.
Thus it leads to a devastating conclusion, where Manish leads others to the farm, leading Umbreen to flee into the new Pakistan, and to Prem's death. His line “This isn't what I fought for,” is quite poignant given this aired on Armistice Day (or the day after Remembrance Day, as it is called in Australia). The cinematography of the shot, as the trigger is pulled on Prem, and then the focus shifts to Team TARDIS as they hear the shot as they walk away, was quite sad, and well done. Overall a very good episode. 9.25/10.
For any history buffs who knows about the Partition, a question.
Why was the decision made to form the two Pakistans (East and West) and have them ruled as one country? Why not Pakistan and Bangladesh from the start which would have meant that there would not have been the horrible and costly Bangladesh War of Independence? Did really the Powers That Be really believe that Pakistanis could rule the Bangladeshi with impartiality and without friction? The two areas were significantly geographically apart as well as culturally different.
Why was the decision made to form the two Pakistans (East and West) and have them ruled as one country? Why not Pakistan and Bangladesh from the start which would have meant that there would not have been the horrible and costly Bangladesh War of Independence? Did really the Powers That Be really believe that Pakistanis could rule the Bangladeshi with impartiality and without friction? The two areas were significantly geographically apart as well as culturally different.
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I really enjoyed that one. It was probably my favourite one so far, being very poignant. I think Bradley Walsh and Mandip Gill were wonderful.
Jodie Whitaker was too but she's already become one of my favourites and I feel like I say it every week.
Jodie Whitaker was too but she's already become one of my favourites and I feel like I say it every week.
It's a failing of Western Powers and colonialism that they think they know the best way to create borders. As an example almost the entire Middle East is made up of arbitrary borders created by the British and Allies following World War 1 (and violating the promises they made to the Arabs for their help against the Turks).