Delta Vega
- Thread starter AmbassadorPointyEars
- Start date
Though nothing excludes the possibility that the coordinates Nero had to calculate are exactly the same. Calculating only means that he didn't make a guess.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Right, because that's the only way a Romulan would know anything about Vulcans... if Spock, and only Spock, told him.
You just spent your time trying to convince everyone Spock is the one who told Nero everything about Vulcans and the full-scale of the psionics. Now that you can't prove that, you suddenly move the goalposts.
Not that it helps you much, Vulcans are notorious for not telling anyone the details of their capabilities and bio-chemistry, partly because some of it is taboo even to themselves.
It's highly unlikely some Romulan captain on a out of the way mining ship would know about a Vulcan's full capabilities. In fact, it's highly unlikely the Romulan praetor knows a Vulcan's full capabilities, it's highly unlikely a Vulcan's own captain knows a Vulcan's full capabilities after all.
Right, which if you were correct, you would have named the scene and the quoted the dialog in it... since you can't, because it doesn't exist...
Nope, not at all, but then, we seem to be the only ones who actually know what happened in the movie, unlike you.
So, let me quote from the first twenty seconds of the movie, before Narada has even arrived: "Could this be Klingon?"
You don't wonder if it's Klingon, if you're nowhere near the Klingons.
Except of course that it isn't, once again seeing no quotes.
No, actually I made no assumption on proximity at all. In fact, nobody makes an assumption on proximity, except maybe Kirk - without ever saying so - which would be the massive failure.
No, that didn't happen. You seem to be hallucinating.
Kirk makes no assumption about proximity whatsoever, that's where the "without ever saying so"
part comes in. You said Kirk's deduction made no sense because the location of Spock's entry supposedly wasn't specified - and that's the assumption I'm talking about.You mean the dialogue that's being alluded to at the top of the page? Try actually watching the film or reading the thread before disputing something which you know nothing about.
Try watching the film. It's been quoted before, and if you were actually paying attention to the thread, it's been mentioned here several times on the last page.
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
No, that didn't happen. You seem to be hallucinating.
Kirk makes no assumption about proximity whatsoever, that's where the "without saying so"
You mean the dialogue that's being alluded to at the top of the page? Try actually watching the film or reading the thread before disputing something which you know nothing about.
Congratulations, you just entered my ignore list. I have no interest in playing with a troll.
Which is of course the opposite of reality. You have no idea what happened in the movie, which is why you're demanding to be spoonfed quotes that have already appeared here.
Which is why your original claim - (Close to) the Neutral Zone IS the original entry point - is false. The movie shows that the original entry point is in an entirely different location.
The first white hole opened 75,000 kilometers away from the Klingon border. That means it's well inside the Neutral Zone, because the Zone is certainly much larger than 0.25 light seconds.
Oh, it certainly was.
No, the figure "75,000 kilometers" was said; the "away from the Klingon border" part was never said.
I don't think there was such a thing as the Klingon Neutral Zone in TOS - there was the Organian Peace Treaty (which isn't in place yet) but there was never any mention of a formal neutral zone until it was brought up in TWoK (i.e. after the Treaty). Plus 75,000km is a stone's spit in stellar terms (our own solar system is well over 5 million km). Even at impulse you'd be back on home turf in a heartbeat. It's odd that they discount the possibility of a Klingon ship when they are literally on the Klingon doorstep. I suppose 75,000km sounded a lot to the writer.
As far as we know, the Klingons and Romulans were trading partners during this period (in the 2260's at least) so I suppose there might be a section of Federation/Romulan Neutral Zone next to Klingon territory.
As far as we know, the Klingons and Romulans were trading partners during this period (in the 2260's at least) so I suppose there might be a section of Federation/Romulan Neutral Zone next to Klingon territory.
Hmm... the second one definately opened inside a Neutral Zone. The question is, if it's the Romulan NZ or if the writers thought of a Klingon NZ.
In the early version of the script the stated distance is from the border of the KNZ, not the border of Klingon territory. In other words they're in Federation space.
Except for the fact that they somehow got the different location exactly right as soon as they reached those coordinates.
Well that was the early version of the script, but in the final movie they are in the NZ.
I think we might be talking at cross purposes. Temporal co-ordinates are a moment in time not a different location in space. They'd be in the same location that the Narada came out roughly. Even if Spock came out a short distance away (in stellar terms), they'd be able to detect the chronitons and get there in time to meet him.
Your interpretation depends on whether you believe that the writers were unaware that there was no Klingon Neutral Zone or not. Of course one alternative is that there was no Klingon Neutral Zone at the time of the Kelvin but one had been established by 2258 i.e. same location but different border.
Your interpretation depends on whether you believe that the writers were unaware that there was no Klingon Neutral Zone or not. Of course one alternative is that there was no Klingon Neutral Zone at the time of the Kelvin but one had been established by 2258 i.e. same location but different border.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
Of course they're in Federation space. Why wouldn't they be? But the lines quoted statement is from the movie, not the early version of the script. Early versions of the script have absolutely zero relevance to what actually happened on screen.
He said the same thing to Young Spock too, remember? And he explained to Pike that the purpose of his "seeing" it was so that all surviving Vulcans would feel the anguish that he felt when Romulus was destroyed.
If he literally wanted Spock to see it, he could have easily tied Spock to a chair on the Narada with a monitor and a centaurian slug. I think his warped mind thought it would be especially cool (no pun intended) to also maroon him on some shithole planet where he could spend the rest of his short life anguishing over the loss in isolation.
Indeed. He's a pretty workable villain, all things considered, but he aint exactly a Mensa candidate.Only if Nero is a complete idiot...
Okay, it's a possibility.
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