deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

[GilmourD]

AH, that's just more TNG techno-babble to me, LOL.

Na, I love TNG, just not as much as TOS. I do have that book though, I just never read it all, like I read all my TOS stuff. And that's not an all that bad of a concept, I guess. I just like mine better eh.

The only reason I think the way I do is because I base my idea of bussards on the real Bussard Ramjet ram-scoop configuration.

To be honest, TNG science extrapolation and techno-babble did tend to wear a wee-bit thin for me, both science-wise, and let's fill out the hour out explaining 24th century crap, ut, it's them darn EPS conduits again surprise surprise over and over and over again, by writers that I felt, were not always qualified to be writing real science-fiction, which I consider more along the lines of real thought-out work ala Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Niven (who used the concept a lot), Baxter, etc.

deg

Actually, it's kinda funny... But the article you linked to describes the process that I was talking about above. At least this is how I understood the Bussard collectors (or Bussard ramscoop as I've seen them listed in other Trek literature). This is actually pretty close to (and probably exactly) what's in the TNG Tech Manual.

This is from the article to which you linked.

The mass of the ion ram scoop must be minimized on an interstellar ramjet. The size of the scoop is large enough that the scoop cannot be solid. This is best accomplished by using an electromagnetic field, or alternatively using an electrostatic field to build the ion ram scoop. Such an ion scoop will use electromagnetic funnels, or electrostatic fields to collect ionized hydrogen gas from space for use as propellant by ramjet propulsion systems (since much of the hydrogen is not ionized, some versions of a scoop propose ionizing the hydrogen, perhaps with a laser, ahead of the ship.) An electric field can electrostatically attract the positive ions, and thus draw them inside a ramjet engine. The electromagnetic funnel would bend the ions into helical spirals around the magnetic field lines to scoop up the ions via the starship's motion through space. Ionized particles moving in spirals produce an energy loss, and hence drag; the scoop must be designed to both minimize the circular motion of the particles and simultaneously maximize the collection. Likewise, if the hydrogen is heated during collection, thermal radiation will represent an energy loss, and hence also drag; so an effective scoop must collect and compress the hydrogen without significant heating. A magnetohydrodynamic generator drawing power from the exhaust could power the scoop.

 

[deg3D]

AH, that's just more TNG techno-babble to me, LOL.

Na, I love TNG, just not as much as TOS. I do have that book though, I just never read it all, like I read all my TOS stuff. And that's not an all that bad of a concept, I guess. I just like mine better eh.

The only reason I think the way I do is because I base my idea of bussards on the real Bussard Ramjet ram-scoop configuration.

To be honest, TNG science extrapolation and techno-babble did tend to wear a wee-bit thin for me, both science-wise, and let's fill out the hour out explaining 24th century crap, ut, it's them darn EPS conduits again surprise surprise over and over and over again, by writers that I felt, were not always qualified to be writing real science-fiction, which I consider more along the lines of real thought-out work ala Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Niven (who used the concept a lot), Baxter, etc.

deg

Actually, it's kinda funny... But the article you linked to describes the process that I was talking about above. At least this is how I understood the Bussard collectors (or Bussard ramscoop as I've seen them listed in other Trek literature). This is actually pretty close to (and probably exactly) what's in the TNG Tech Manual.

This is from the article to which you linked.

The mass of the ion ram scoop must be minimized on an interstellar ramjet. The size of the scoop is large enough that the scoop cannot be solid. This is best accomplished by using an electromagnetic field, or alternatively using an electrostatic field to build the ion ram scoop. Such an ion scoop will use electromagnetic funnels, or electrostatic fields to collect ionized hydrogen gas from space for use as propellant by ramjet propulsion systems (since much of the hydrogen is not ionized, some versions of a scoop propose ionizing the hydrogen, perhaps with a laser, ahead of the ship.) An electric field can electrostatically attract the positive ions, and thus draw them inside a ramjet engine. The electromagnetic funnel would bend the ions into helical spirals around the magnetic field lines to scoop up the ions via the starship's motion through space. Ionized particles moving in spirals produce an energy loss, and hence drag; the scoop must be designed to both minimize the circular motion of the particles and simultaneously maximize the collection. Likewise, if the hydrogen is heated during collection, thermal radiation will represent an energy loss, and hence also drag; so an effective scoop must collect and compress the hydrogen without significant heating. A magnetohydrodynamic generator drawing power from the exhaust could power the scoop.

Well there ya go, I stand corrected eh. Notice the pic on that page (I just ever look at the pictures ya know... j/k ), that is the idea of a "scoop" I was thinking in terms of, which is actually way way way beyond the size of Trek bussards. Plus, being a MOPAR gear-head, I naturally tend to think of the idea of "scoop" (ala hood-scoop) along the lines of the three like-shaped boxes just below the domes.

But given your quoted info from my own link no less, LOL, I can easily extrapolate the Trek version as being just as workable, and after all, why not, it's all basically made-up (albeit based on hard science theory) ideas anywho.

Thanks dude.

deg

 

[deg3D]

Plus, there always this too, LOL, on lines just below your quoted stuff:

Since the time of Bussard's original proposal, it has been discovered that the region surrounding the sun has a much lower density of interstellar hydrogen than was believed at that time. By 1978, analyses indicated that Bussard ramjets were not feasible.

So perhaps my theory does make more sense, in a completely made-up sort of way of course.

deg

 

[GilmourD]

Plus, there always this too, LOL, on lines just below your quoted stuff:

Since the time of Bussard's original proposal, it has been discovered that the region surrounding the sun has a much lower density of interstellar hydrogen than was believed at that time. By 1978, analyses indicated that Bussard ramjets were not feasible.

So perhaps my theory does make more sense, in a completely made-up sort of way of course.

deg

Well, that's within the solar system... Things may be different in interstellar space.

 

[deg3D]

Plus, there always this too, LOL, on lines just below your quoted stuff:

Since the time of Bussard's original proposal, it has been discovered that the region surrounding the sun has a much lower density of interstellar hydrogen than was believed at that time. By 1978, analyses indicated that Bussard ramjets were not feasible.

So perhaps my theory does make more sense, in a completely made-up sort of way of course.

deg

Well, that's within the solar system... Things may be different in interstellar space.

Sure sure.

deg

 

[Praetor]

Or they could be there so the Enterprise could dip through a hydrogen-heavy nebula and suck in hydrogen that way for deuterium conversion.

On the whole, I think too much of an effort has been made to try to force the way warp engines in TOS and the films for that matter worked compared to the way they work on TNG. To me, everything we see on TNG is a result of the transwarp experiments of the Excelsior, explaining the differences, and everything from before should be quite different. So a churning apparatus or energy sink for the dome, with the bussard ramjets in the boxes below on the E still works for me.

And I quite like the idea of the domes at the reverse being a reverse Tesla coil. Will yours glow? I know that on the old model they originally looked glow-y because they were painted such a bright white but in fact of course did not glow.

Can't wait for more!

 

[GilmourD]

Or they could be there so the Enterprise could dip through a hydrogen-heavy nebula and suck in hydrogen that way for deuterium conversion.

On the whole, I think too much of an effort has been made to try to force the way warp engines in TOS and the films for that matter worked compared to the way they work on TNG. To me, everything we see on TNG is a result of the transwarp experiments of the Excelsior, explaining the differences, and everything from before should be quite different. So a churning apparatus or energy sink for the dome, with the bussard ramjets in the boxes below on the E still works for me.

And I quite like the idea of the domes at the reverse being a reverse Tesla coil. Will yours glow? I know that on the old model they originally looked glow-y because they were painted such a bright white but in fact of course did not glow.

Can't wait for more!

In reference to the underlined/bolded part... I like to think of them as two parts of the Bussard collector, actually. The dome creates an energy field to attract the deuterium and the "boxes" below suck it all up.

 

[deg3D]

Or they could be there so the Enterprise could dip through a hydrogen-heavy nebula and suck in hydrogen that way for deuterium conversion.

On the whole, I think too much of an effort has been made to try to force the way warp engines in TOS and the films for that matter worked compared to the way they work on TNG. To me, everything we see on TNG is a result of the transwarp experiments of the Excelsior, explaining the differences, and everything from before should be quite different. So a churning apparatus or energy sink for the dome, with the bussard ramjets in the boxes below on the E still works for me.

And I quite like the idea of the domes at the reverse being a reverse Tesla coil. Will yours glow? I know that on the old model they originally looked glow-y because they were painted such a bright white but in fact of course did not glow.

Can't wait for more!

Good points IMO, and thanks my friend.

No Praetor (love that avie and SN BTW), they will not glow. I feel I've added just enough new glowy-bits as is. I don't want my gal E to get all glowy-rave-garish. Less is more with me eh.

Or they could be there so the Enterprise could dip through a hydrogen-heavy nebula and suck in hydrogen that way for deuterium conversion.

On the whole, I think too much of an effort has been made to try to force the way warp engines in TOS and the films for that matter worked compared to the way they work on TNG. To me, everything we see on TNG is a result of the transwarp experiments of the Excelsior, explaining the differences, and everything from before should be quite different. So a churning apparatus or energy sink for the dome, with the bussard ramjets in the boxes below on the E still works for me.

And I quite like the idea of the domes at the reverse being a reverse Tesla coil. Will yours glow? I know that on the old model they originally looked glow-y because they were painted such a bright white but in fact of course did not glow.

Can't wait for more!

In reference to the underlined/bolded part... I like to think of them as two parts of the Bussard collector, actually. The dome creates an energy field to attract the deuterium and the "boxes" below suck it all up.

I can easily see that my friend. Works fine in line with my own ideas about it.

deg

 

[deg3D]

BTW, the bussards have been shifted to my take on the traditional peach tone, and updated in the original orthos post found, back here.

She just wasn't my gal E to me with the blue, as much as I liked them. However, I do have the blue design in mind for another new never-realized Trek ship design that I am thinking of doing.

deg

 

[Gagarin]

deg3D - like the TOS model, your design doesn't have detail symentry, but in differant places. What was your reasoning and do you have any neat 'in unverise' thoughts about that?

 

[deg3D]

deg3D - like the TOS model, your design doesn't have detail symentry, but in differant places. What was your reasoning and do you have any neat 'in unverise' thoughts about that?

Thanks dude.

Thee simplest of reason for that: E is not symmetrical. It has popped up as such in these latter-day creations, both on-screen and fan-built, but the fact of the matter is, E, as she was in TOS, was not symmetrical in detailing. And I like that aspect of her, so I kept it.

Good eye dude, (shows yer payin' attention ), and thanks again.

For the record though, she's my own TOS.5 model eh.

Oh, and as to my thoughts about that, most things in life, including large vessels, are just not perfectly symmetrical, and I think Matt Jefferies understood that also.

deg

 

[BolianAuthor]

Thanks very much gents, glad you like 'er.

I...and would really like to have a look at the red and peach version in comparison.

P.S. Will you be making the model available for fan productions to use, so it may somehow fanonize itself over time?

Here's the peach version, which I do very much like also, for tradition's sake.



But sorry c5maier, my mesh catalog is not available for public use, for personal and professional reasons.

deg

Just gotta say, that is the BEST ramscoop effect I have EVER seen assigned to the TOS Enterprise. Great job.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Deg, I get wood looking at this. I want to buy it as a kit or at least get conversion parts for the PL 1/1000 kit.

-Shawn

 

[deg3D]

Thanks very much guys, so glad you enjoy her as much as I do.

Yeah, a practical version could be done Shawn, and would be pretty darn cool eh.

I'd be more apt these days to have her 3D printed, rather than adjusting an existing kit.

deg

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Thanks very much guys, so glad you enjoy her as much as I do.

Yeah, a practical version could be done Shawn, and would be pretty darn cool eh.

I'd be more apt these days to have her 3D printed, rather than adjusting an existing kit.

deg

Honestly, looking at the changes you've made, the changes that would need to be made to the PL 1/1000 kit are all pieces that are separate to begin with. In other words, the main parts of the ship (saucer, secondary hull, nacelles and pylons) wouldn't have to be adjusted, just the parts that attach to them (nacelle tail pieces, bridge dome, deflector dish, impulse engines, etc.).

Just something to chew on because I look it in that it would be easier and cheaper (for both of us) just to make the replacement parts than kitting the whole thing. Either way, I'd definitely buy it.

-Shawn

 

[deg3D]

Thanks very much guys, so glad you enjoy her as much as I do.

Yeah, a practical version could be done Shawn, and would be pretty darn cool eh.

I'd be more apt these days to have her 3D printed, rather than adjusting an existing kit.

deg

Honestly, looking at the changes you've made, the changes that would need to be made to the PL 1/1000 kit are all pieces that are separate to begin with. In other words, the main parts of the ship (saucer, secondary hull, nacelles and pylons) wouldn't have to be adjusted, just the parts that attach to them (nacelle tail pieces, bridge dome, deflector dish, impulse engines, etc.).

Just something to chew on because I look it in that it would be easier and cheaper (for both of us) just to make the replacement parts than kitting the whole thing. Either way, I'd definitely buy it.

-Shawn

Yeah, basically I would say the most difficult modification to make would be etching in all the main panels lines all over her, and even that would just take a bit of time, like anything. It could be tricky though. I would most probably have a test kit to get the process down, and then once I had developed a tight and working method, apply it to a fresh kit/parts.

That's one thing I like over practical building, with CG, no mess, much less space is needed, nothing is wasted, and no real costs, passed the hardware and software. 'Course, given what I have invested in hard and software thus far, I could easily buy over a 100 E kits to practice on.

deg

 

[Praetor]

Those revised nacelle caps look awesome, deg! Nice job!!!

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Thanks very much guys, so glad you enjoy her as much as I do.

Yeah, a practical version could be done Shawn, and would be pretty darn cool eh.

I'd be more apt these days to have her 3D printed, rather than adjusting an existing kit.

deg

Honestly, looking at the changes you've made, the changes that would need to be made to the PL 1/1000 kit are all pieces that are separate to begin with. In other words, the main parts of the ship (saucer, secondary hull, nacelles and pylons) wouldn't have to be adjusted, just the parts that attach to them (nacelle tail pieces, bridge dome, deflector dish, impulse engines, etc.).

Just something to chew on because I look it in that it would be easier and cheaper (for both of us) just to make the replacement parts than kitting the whole thing. Either way, I'd definitely buy it.

-Shawn

Yeah, basically I would say the most difficult modification to make would be etching in all the main panels lines all over her, and even that would just take a bit of time, like anything. It could be tricky though.

Oh, laddie... that's what decals are for!

-Shawn

 

[deg3D]

Those revised nacelle caps look awesome, deg! Nice job!!!

Thanks bud.

Oh, laddie... that's what decals are for!

-Shawn

Oh, laddie, I didn't cheat 'em on the CG version, I certainly wouldn't cheat 'em on a practical version either eh. Don't have it in me eh.

deg

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Those revised nacelle caps look awesome, deg! Nice job!!!

Thanks bud.

Oh, laddie... that's what decals are for!

-Shawn

Oh, laddie, I didn't cheat 'em on the CG version, I certainly wouldn't cheat 'em on a practical version either eh. Don't have it in me eh.

deg

You're a stronger man than I am.

-Shawn