That's a LOT of turbolifts on deck 2 - any reason why the ship needs so many?
Defiant Deck Plans?
- Thread starter glock27
- Start date
In my time, we've evolved beyond the need for stairs.
I don't know.Those are the locations shown on the deck plans in the DS9TM. Maybe it's so people can get to their stations quickly enough when Red Alert is issued. But also, the horizontal turboshaft on deck 3 doesn't pass through a corridor in the forward part of its loop, elminating a potential shortcut.
Here's an update, close to completion, leaving little more than the labeling. But I still don't know about those three empty rectangles aft of the bridge on deck 1. According to the DS9TM plans, that's not the location of the readyroom. And Doug Drexler's recent description of the tractor emitter doesn't seem right.
Here's an update, close to completion, leaving little more than the labeling. But I still don't know about those three empty rectangles aft of the bridge on deck 1. According to the DS9TM plans, that's not the location of the readyroom. And Doug Drexler's recent description of the tractor emitter doesn't seem right.
During a combat situation, turbos are only going to slow people down, as there won't be enough cars to get everyone immediatley to their battlestations, not even taking into account gridlock.
It'd be useful for smaller ships to have inter-deck gangways to allow for uninterrupted high-traffic inter-deck travel.
It'd be useful for smaller ships to have inter-deck gangways to allow for uninterrupted high-traffic inter-deck travel.
Anyway, it's time to take inventory. What's missing in the figure above? Or what should be changed? (In this size, I don't want to put in furniture.)
Thanks - I realised that when I also checked the DS9TM last night!
However, the starboard forward turbolift and the two extreme port and starboard ones are a mystery - where do/can they possibly go?
Okay, the two GNDN turbolifts on deck 2 and one on deck 1 are removed in the figures linked below.
Here they are labeled, ready for more checking:
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck1.html
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck2.html
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck3.html
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck4.html
Here they are labeled, ready for more checking:
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck1.html
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck2.html
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck3.html
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck4.html
Last edited:
Saquist
Commodore
I don't know.Those are the locations shown on the deck plans in the DS9TM. Maybe it's so people can get to their stations quickly enough when Red Alert is issued. But also, the horizontal turboshaft on deck 3 doesn't pass through a corridor in the forward part of its loop, elminating a potential shortcut.
Here's an update, close to completion, leaving little more than the labeling. But I still don't know about those three empty rectangles aft of the bridge on deck 1. According to the DS9TM plans, that's not the location of the readyroom. And Doug Drexler's recent description of the tractor emitter doesn't seem right.
This is what I was talking about before. Those empty Rectangles are there because if all that is Deck One then I don't think there is any head room because of the back of the Ship slopes down ever so slightly from the bridge back. That slope starts at the mid section of the circle of the bridge and goes back.
Now I haven't drafted the ship's volume but that's my theory with the ship at 120 meters and four decks.
Yeah, but I think the floor of deck 1 is lower than one might guess by looking at the ship from the front. Anyway, that aftmost empty space is deuterium storage, the second is the upper level of Enginnering, and the area just aft of the bridge has a transporter, probabably a replicator or two, and some consoles. I added a few things to those figures, which can be seen in the linked full schematics. And those links will be good for updated versions if I make any more changes, since they lead to my own Web site.
Saquist
Commodore
There will a lot of such areas on Defiant at the 120 size. Tech and Storage spaces. I wish you could see everything that I'm doing on the Defiant but I'm getting the sense that it's a true work of art. Perhaps even a masterpiece, not of design but of flow and aesthetics.
I've designed ships and there is always a sense of perpendicular quality to them all. Defiant uses as little of that as possible still being symmetrical and recognizably human. It's not the shape of the ship is that great it's how it was chosen to fit together. I can't imagine designing something with this many....illusionary lines.
I've designed ships and there is always a sense of perpendicular quality to them all. Defiant uses as little of that as possible still being symmetrical and recognizably human. It's not the shape of the ship is that great it's how it was chosen to fit together. I can't imagine designing something with this many....illusionary lines.
IMHO, they should be connected to their neighbors by horizontal shafts at their respective deck levels, so that Deck 3 isn't the only one with such shafts.
Also, the centerline prong on Deck 3 that apparently goes through a curving corridor might warrant a bit of reworking. That is, the light blue walls of that corridor should reflect the discontinuity. Say, this truncated corridor would be ideal for placing the ship's well-known single transporter platform, the one at the end of a short corridor segment but apparently missing from the LCARS view... Drexler had that unit right aft of the bridge, but other locations could be freely chosen as well.
Also, "Paradise Lost" shows a centerline aft torpedo launch. Are those small horizontal cylinders on Decks 2 and 4 supposed to be torpedo launchers? A better placement might be between/below the aft impulse engine thingamabobs, a location the Drexler side view allows for even if the top view of Deck 3 suggests otherwise.
(Assuming one wants to keep the impulse layout even though the ship clearly lacks impulse vents there but does have glowing vents elsewhere, thus rather negating the idea that the putative stern impulse vents are "stealthy").
Also, q-torps are fired from the triangular cheek fairings in "Defiant" and "For the Uniform", no two ways about it. Drexler's "Targeting Sensors" label for these features must be treated as disinformation aimed at the Romulan readers.
Perhaps Drexler's Defiant is one of the earlier incarnations of this half-baked prototype ship, rather than the definite version that Sisko mostly used?
Timo Saloniemi
Not that this isn't confusing enough, but something else to consider: the DS9 Tech Manual implies that the Defiant is equipped with the same RCS thruster system as the Galaxy class starship, allowing for its extreme agility. Compared to a 120 meter Defiant, those thrusters would be enormous; they would, in fact, fit perfectly with those mysterious "vent" features on the surface of the ship if one assumes that Defiant is equipped with a dozen freakishly enormous thruster vanes.
One such feature is directly on the rear of the ship, a double vent between two tractor beam emitters. If this is an RCS thruster with magnetohydrodynamic vectoring (as suggested in both the DS9 and TNG manuals) then it would be Defiant's primary pitch motor, and the impulse engines couldn't possibly be located there in the first place.
One such feature is directly on the rear of the ship, a double vent between two tractor beam emitters. If this is an RCS thruster with magnetohydrodynamic vectoring (as suggested in both the DS9 and TNG manuals) then it would be Defiant's primary pitch motor, and the impulse engines couldn't possibly be located there in the first place.
About a torpedo launcher center aft, it may have been a one-time thing on screen, and I couldn't find any clear aft-view pictures of the model. But I did find a treasure trove of large photos of the Defiant model taken at Christie's:
Defiant photos taken at Christie's
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=9903
And I've put this on my Web site only to be accessed here. This nice mesh may have the warhead a bit funny, but it clearly shows nine torpedo launchers, none of which are center aft or in the cheese wedges.
Defiant wallpaper (2048 x 1536)
http://lcars24.com/DefWal.jpg
About the RCS thrusters, I did show and label just the four on the nacelle tops here, but I haven't measured and scaled these and those of the Galaxy class to compare size. But they do look pretty big. What I labeled plasma vents aft on decks 2 and three I previously had labeled as main thrusters, and maybe I should change those back.
Defiant deck 1
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck1.html
Defiant deck 2
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck2.html
Defiant deck 3
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck3.html
Defiant deck 4
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck4.html
Defiant photos taken at Christie's
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=9903
And I've put this on my Web site only to be accessed here. This nice mesh may have the warhead a bit funny, but it clearly shows nine torpedo launchers, none of which are center aft or in the cheese wedges.
Defiant wallpaper (2048 x 1536)
http://lcars24.com/DefWal.jpg
About the RCS thrusters, I did show and label just the four on the nacelle tops here, but I haven't measured and scaled these and those of the Galaxy class to compare size. But they do look pretty big. What I labeled plasma vents aft on decks 2 and three I previously had labeled as main thrusters, and maybe I should change those back.
Defiant deck 1
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck1.html
Defiant deck 2
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck2.html
Defiant deck 3
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck3.html
Defiant deck 4
http://lcars24.com/Def-deck4.html
An excellent idea.
Although those two-plus-two circles flanking the pair of vents need not be tractor emitters. Those could be cover plates for the secretive main impulse engines, if one chooses to believe the Drexler/Sternbach concept of "stealthy" aft nozzles (and disregards the big round glowing things just inboard of the warp engine aft ends). Or they could be the aft torpedo tubes, close enough to centerline to perfectly explain the "Paradise Lost" shot.
Timo Saloniemi
Those are great, particularly this one...
...which reveals that the "windows" on deck 4/5 are nothing of the sort, being actually raises "bumps" instead. Maybe they are something to do with the shuttlebay defences? Or emitters for a tractor beam net? I dunno
...Of course, most starship windows are "nothing of the sort" if seen close up. Some are sunken to the hull, some are level with the skin, some are pieces of reflective tape or layers of paint protruding from the hull.
Whether we're to think that the things are "really" protruding, flat or sunken is largely unrelated to whether we're to think that they are windows. A "bumpy" window might be a sensible engineering solution, or perhaps serve a practical observation dome.
Those things might be useful in monitoring shuttlecraft approaches, yes. But there are awfully many of those - why would the shuttle approaches need rows of spectators? OTOH, the ship is supposed to be capable of landing and taking off (as after a long last verified in "Children of Time"), and a series of small, "armored" portholes might serve some function during such landings. Or during dockings with the surface of a Borg Cube, if we consider the original design specs of the ship.
Possibly the big round center feature they now use as a shuttlebay was originally intended to be a big belly-mounted drill/boarding pod for piercing Borg hulls? The rows of lights might help with the piercing work somehow.
Timo Saloniemi
Whether we're to think that the things are "really" protruding, flat or sunken is largely unrelated to whether we're to think that they are windows. A "bumpy" window might be a sensible engineering solution, or perhaps serve a practical observation dome.
Those things might be useful in monitoring shuttlecraft approaches, yes. But there are awfully many of those - why would the shuttle approaches need rows of spectators? OTOH, the ship is supposed to be capable of landing and taking off (as after a long last verified in "Children of Time"), and a series of small, "armored" portholes might serve some function during such landings. Or during dockings with the surface of a Borg Cube, if we consider the original design specs of the ship.
Possibly the big round center feature they now use as a shuttlebay was originally intended to be a big belly-mounted drill/boarding pod for piercing Borg hulls? The rows of lights might help with the piercing work somehow.
Timo Saloniemi
There is indeed the issue of how literally we should take the materials used on the models, especially as such an extreme closeup was never seen on the show.
The CGI Defiant however is a different story:
Here the lights are not protruding, but given that it is a shuttlepod being launched, those lights would be tiny as windows! They also do not match the size of the only known example of a window on such a ship (okay it was the Valiant, but still)
Yeah, make'em drills I say!
The CGI Defiant however is a different story:
Here the lights are not protruding, but given that it is a shuttlepod being launched, those lights would be tiny as windows! They also do not match the size of the only known example of a window on such a ship (okay it was the Valiant, but still)
Yeah, make'em drills I say!
About the windows, as I mentioned before, they could just to provide some illumination and recognizable points of light for reference for pilots of shuttles and work bees, and they would be dark when the lights were off on deck four. And I assume that they are small, certainly not representing three decks on deck four.
Saquist
Commodore
I'm not sure torpedoes have been fired from vents before.
Torpedoes have been fired from the same spot in Shattered Mirror. ( yet I doubt they really thought about where the weapons exit.) Defiant wasn't exactly planned properly.
The other "Vents" on the ship are just transporter emitters, at least some of them. The ones around the impulse engines are likely emergency flush vents.
As for thrusters they are clearly marked by the yellow rectangles all over the ship just like almost every other starfleet ship. I count 11 of them.
I think the little "eagles" on either side of the very back of the ship (which are labeled as sensors or something in the fact files) MIGHT be torpedo launchers.
If we are going to suppose that the features on these ships actually have design qualities...we seen Star Trek's version REIL's , REL's and LAS. (the lighting system for Runways) Those have been on the Starbase but starship's have never had them. But we know what the look like and they've never looked liked windows.
Along with the split level concept of that lower level I've also entertained a much more simpler idea that these angled areas are double windows of the same rooms. Windows for a lower and upper bunk configuration. It's probably to soon to speculate. I'll actually run the appropriate volumetric after the model is finished to actually determine what we can do properly with the space.
The four stern circles wouldn't be "vents"; they'd probably differ little from the TOS torpedo tubes, assuming those are like the ENT ones, only covered with round or oval plates.
If they are aft tubes, they might be fairly simple "chutes" for deploying a limited number of (standard-sized or custom) torps to discourage sublight pursuit. The two firings we see, plus a third one only mentioned in dialogue in "The Die is Cast", all take place at sublight, and the warp chase in "Way of the Warrior" sees no torpedo action even though it would be the perfect time and place to fire aft torps at warp. So perhaps four low-performance tubes are a good stern armament arrangement, the numbers compensating for the lack of oomph that is the result of the compactness of the launchers?
There appear to be four bow tubes that only get fired at sublight, too: the four in the cheek fairings, always seen spitting out quantum torps and never photons. The ninth tube (or the sixth if we only count visible firings and assume there's only one stern tube) in the middle of the "jaw" deflector never fires either photons or quantums, and is only seen deploying a probe in "Rejoined" IIRC; perhaps it's a probe-only device after all, despite its seeming prominence in the MSD?
Timo Saloniemi
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