Defending The Episode...

[Farscape One]

Okay, I've just thought of an idea that I got while posting on another thread about DS9's "PROFIT AND LACE". I seem to be a defender of unpopular episodes... "Masks", "MOVE ALONG HOME", etc.

So let's turn this into a game. Give me an episode, and I'll defend it.

Exceptions are these two...
DS9, "PROFIT AND LACE"
ENT, "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES..."

I CANNOT defend these... I have never been able to, nor am I willing.

But everything else... let's see if I can do it. And if anyone else wants to defend one in their way, by all means do so.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Shades of Grey.

Checkmate.

 

[Farscape One]

Okay, it IS hard to defend, and I personally don't like the episode.

But...

1. The concept of using memories to kill an invading bacteria is pretty damn cool.

2. There were some nice funny moments, like O'Brien's joke about getting the coordinates right or Riker's joke about his ancestor. The ending with a confused Data was funny, too.

3. Troi was very useful here. Her empathic abilities helped Pulaski gauge the treatment for the memories.

Next, please.

 

[Tosk]

Not to nitpick, but that seems less like defending the episode and more like just listing a few positives.

If it's just "say a nice thing about a bad episode" then even Profit and Lace and These Are the Voyages should be easy. I maintain there is no episode so bad you can't say something nice about it.

 

[at Quark's]

ENT, "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES..."

I still wonder what the public reaction to that one would have been, had it been a random episode somewhere in the middle of a season. (I'd think that it still wouldn't have been received in a positive way but that it wouldn't have nearly gotten the hate it got now).

I'll agree however that it's absolutely no good as a series finale.

 

[serdogthehound]

Threshold

for"These are the Voyages" the 3 captains monolog was AWESOME but thanks to Youtube we can all watch it with have to watch the rest of the epi

 

[Farscape One]

I have to disagree about "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES..." with the ending captains monologue. I still can't justify its existence for that last shot, despite how good that monologue is. Same with "PROFIT AND LACE"... no redeeming quality to it. Now, it's very possible it would be better received as a midseason episode. We'll never know.

Okay, "THRESHOLD"...

I'm actually in the camp of not hating this episode. Yes, it's ridiculous and it does belong in the lower end of VOYAGER episodes. But...

1. It introduced a new shuttle design, which I always liked. Very sleek and it was pretty versatile until the Delta Flyer came along.

2. Tom Paris got some genuinely good character development here. He went in thinking this could help his reputation, but he finally realized he needs to work on himself first. Good scenes between him and Janeway, both in his quarters and at the end.

3. I like horror, and watching him go through the transformation was pretty much in the horror realm, especially when he took out his own tongue.

 

[Farscape One]

Not to nitpick, but that seems less like defending the episode and more like just listing a few positives.

If it's just "say a nice thing about a bad episode" then even Profit and Lace and These Are the Voyages should be easy. I maintain there is no episode so bad you can't say something nice about it.

I can see it being a fine line between defending an episode and just naming a couple positives. Admittedly, it can be tricky to tell the difference.

With "Shades Of Grey", Troi being useful IS a good defense for an episode's existence because she was so underutilized overall. And it was using her built-in abilities that helped save the day, instead of it being a hindrance to her.

The other two points, I can see it as just being nice about the episode. But I feel Troi being utilized well here is a solid defense.


If you feel that way about episodes... and I agree with you except for VERY few rare ones... then can you say a nice thing about "PROFIT AND LACE" and "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES..."?

 

[Herbert]

The problem with Shades of Grey is that no matter how you spin it, it's still a crappy filler clip show. There's only one clip show I like and that's the Seinfeld 100th episode clip show because it's filled with the funniest bits but I'd still have preferred they made new a ep instead of a clip ep. Clip shows should never be made. Lazy TV producing.

 

[The Wormhole]

Profit and Lace is pretty dire, not really much if anything redeeming there at all.
TATV actually isn't that bad if you just look at it as a regular episode. Certainly not all that good, but not the disaster everyone made it out to be.
Shades of Gray, not nothing positive to say about that.
Threshold is all kinds of fun, I don't care what anyone says.

 

[Tosk]

If you feel that way about episodes... and I agree with you except for VERY few rare ones... then can you say a nice thing about "PROFIT AND LACE" and "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES..."?

Absolutely. Saying one nice thing is easy.

In TATV, I liked finding out that Shran had a child with Jhamel.
In Profit and Lace, I liked Rom trying to teach Quark how to move. I don't actually hate the first half of P&L, it's just kind of so-so until about the half-way point, then gets really dire. The Rom bit is one of the few things I like about the second half. Bias disclosure: I like Rom.

 

[Farscape One]

The problem with Shade of Grey is that no matter how you spin it, it's still a crappy filler clip show. There's only one clip show I like and that's the Seinfeld 100th episode clip show because it's filled with the funniest bits but I'd still have preferred they made new a ep instead of a clip ep. Clip shows should never be made. Lazy TV producing.

For the most part, I agree with you. But clip shows exist, particularly in that era, when the budget for the season ran out or is just about to, or they need to save A LOT for some episodes ahead. And they typically are not very good... though STARGATE did a couple good ones. (SG-1's "DISCLOSURE" and SGA's "LETTERS FROM PEGASUS", for instance.)

With "Shades Of Grey", they were already way over budget, AND they had to deal with a shorter season due to the WGA strike earlier that tv season, which is ultimately why TNG got 178 episodes produced instead of 182. (4 less episodes made for season 2.)

Hurley had an uphill battle trying to get a final episode made for the season... it only had the transporter room, sickbay, and the jungle used in the entire episode, and was made in only 3 days, I think... less than half the time it took for a typical episode. Even post-production time was cut very short, which is why for this bottle show they ultimately went with a clip format.

It should be noted that it's the only clip show in the franchise, and I truly think a lot of that is due to everything that happened that year, particularly the strike.

They have made far better bottle shows over the years. Totally agreed on that. But I'm not going to call it lazy writing, given what they had to contend with. (There are episodes that fall under the 'lazy writing' category more easily, I think.)

 

[Farscape One]

Absolutely. Saying one nice thing is easy.

In TATV, I liked finding out that Shran had a child with Jhamel.
In Profit and Lace, I liked Rom trying to teach Quark how to move. I don't actually hate the first half of P&L, it's just kind of so-so until about the half-way point, then gets really dire. The Rom bit is one of the few things I like about the second half. Bias disclosure: I like Rom.

Regarding Shran, we can't be sure that event even happened to begin with, since it was all a holodeck recreation. But I see your point... Shran on screen is always a good thing.

I like Rom, too. And that bit is funny. I just can't get past the rest of the episode for that one bit.

But thank you for those points. Good job.


Any other episodes, folks? This is hard, but fun.

 

[BillJ]

The problem with Shade of Grey is that no matter how you spin it, it's still a crappy filler clip show. There's only one clip show I like and that's the Seinfeld 100th episode clip show because it's filled with the funniest bits but I'd still have preferred they made new a ep instead of a clip ep. Clip shows should never be made. Lazy TV producing.

Many are done for budgetary reasons. Probably "Q, Who", "Time Squared" and a few others from season two forced them down the cheapest path possible road for the season finale.

 

[Oddish]

Also, clip shows are less repugnant in an era of no streaming and binge watching. You would see an episode once, and a second time when it went rerun. So, watching the best bits of previous shows was nostalgic, rather than obnoxious.

Can you defend Sub Rosa?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I still wonder what the public reaction to that one would have been, had it been a random episode somewhere in the middle of a season. (I'd think that it still wouldn't have been received in a positive way but that it wouldn't have nearly gotten the hate it got now).

I'll agree however that it's absolutely no good as a series finale.

Or if they hadn’t killed the best character in a stupid way. Without that the episode is mediocre and no worse.

Justice

 

[Oddish]

I think that if TATV had been a midseason episode, or even a S4 capper, with necessary modifications (2155 AD and leave Trip standing), it would have been well received. Even regarded as brilliant by some.

 

[Tosk]

In my opinion, TATV's weaknesses are there no matter when the episode played. Shoehorning it into The Pegasus where it did not belong and does not fit was a crucial mistake, just for starters.

 

[ScottJ85]

Clip shows should never be made. Lazy TV producing.

Agreed except when the clips are from an unaired episode or otherwise never before seen, ie. The Menagerie

 

[Tim Thomason]

The problem with Shades of Grey is that no matter how you spin it, it's still a crappy filler clip show. There's only one clip show I like and that's the Seinfeld 100th episode clip show because it's filled with the funniest bits but I'd still have preferred they made new a ep instead of a clip ep. Clip shows should never be made. Lazy TV producing.

I will counter this sentiment with the Xena & Hercules seasonal clip shows, or the Clerks Animated second episode. When done right and usually for laughs, a clip show can be a viable episode.

"The Xena Scrolls" is one of the more popular episodes of Xena: Warrior Princess.