Deep Space Nine Rewatch

[Trekker4747]

Since you are well into season 6, did you enjoy the opening 6 episodes where Dukat and Weyoun reign over DS9? I was disappointed with much of season 6; I felt the writing wasn't up to DS9's usual standards. I remember thinking that much of the stuff between Dukat, Demar, Kira, Odo, and Dukat's daughter was melodramatic, yet, the season felt anticlimactic after Sisko and the Federation retook the station. One episode, the Red Squad episode, "Valiant", just makes me cringe the acting is so bad. "Profit and Lace" was also bad but its worth watching to see Quark in a dress. My favorite episodes from season 6 were "Rocks and Shoals", "Statistical Probabilities", "The Magnificent Ferengi", "Waltz", "His Way", "Far Beyond The Stars", "Change of Heart", "In The Pale Moonlight", "The Sound of Her Voice", and the finale, "Tears of The Prophets", which set up season 7 with a bang.

Well.... You see.

Yeah, I kind of liked the episodes with Dukat and Weyoun at DS9/Terek Nor and our Starfleet guys at the Starbase from Star Trek II doing things, mostly because I find Dukat to be an interesting character and I like the somewhat "arc" he goes through in the series and the death of his daughter is a touching and dramatic moment. But it's muted a bit by "comedic" moments like Weyoun clapping his hands together and going "Well, time to pack!" when it was obvious that they lost the station and Starfleet was back in control of it. It was a bit too much of a...

"Slapsticky?" "Vaudeville-ian?" thing for such an otherwise serious series of episodes and series in general.

I scantly remember the episode "Valiant" and it not being... "Good." And I'd almost agree that "Profit and Lace" is "underrated" and "better" than people give it credit for. Not by much, but it's a humorous episode, but mostly because I find "gender swap stories" to be usually interesting and fun. (Though P&L dug a bit too much into female cliches, but I guess we don't entirely know how Female Ferengi behave considering we only ever met, what, two or three in the entire franchise? The one living as a male, and Moogie? So actually two?

So, eh, who's to say what Ferengi female hormones do to a Ferengi Quark's age.

The "Jack Pack" is a great group and wish we got more of them than the two episodes we get them in the series.

"Far Beyond the Stars" is good, but mostly just for the different setting and the actors being out of makeup and being different characters. In the end, I'm not "entirely" sure what we're supposed to get from the episode and the racism aspects just feels slightly out of place here, which plays to a problem I have with a scene later in the series.

(When the crew has to carry out a holosuite game to "save" the casino/Vic program and Sisko refuses to participate at first because the program too much cleans up the racial mentality of the 1960s (the period the program is set in.) Maybe Sisko's experience in FBtS played a bigger part in that, but it just seems really odd that in this "perfect" 24th century with humanity having finally grown up and things like racism is no longer a thing (at least for humans) that someone would be so bothered by the "washing" of things in a fictional program that's supposed to be more about an atmosphere and experience than it is a historical record of how things were 400 years earlier.

Today I get people being upset when this part of our history is glossed over because we still have these problems, so ignoring them is not helpful. By the 24th century? I think everyone would be over it and see what's in the past as being the past.

The bigger thing with my pause in the rewatch and with DS9 in general is just that it doesn't feel like Trek, and it's the problem it seems Discovery has too and why I'm not looking forward to the slated Picard series.

Trek is supposed to be about this hopeful, bright, future where man has grown up and acts for the betterment of society.

Wars and shit are going to happen, sure, but there are times when DS9 just feels too dark and "gritty" and to much like a future I wouldn't want to be in, as opposed to what we see in TNG and TOS. I mean, Bashir actually considers the notion that the Jack Pack is right and that the Federation is set to lose the war and we're looking at generations of oppression and misery.

It just doesn't "feel" right. For me.

But, I'll continue the series when I get settled in my new place.

 

[Armus]

Well.... You see.

Yeah, I kind of liked the episodes with Dukat and Weyoun at DS9/Terek Nor and our Starfleet guys at the Starbase from Star Trek II doing things, mostly because I find Dukat to be an interesting character and I like the somewhat "arc" he goes through in the series and the death of his daughter is a touching and dramatic moment. But it's muted a bit by "comedic" moments like Weyoun clapping his hands together and going "Well, time to pack!" when it was obvious that they lost the station and Starfleet was back in control of it. It was a bit too much of a...

"Slapsticky?" "Vaudeville-ian?" thing for such an otherwise serious series of episodes and series in general.

I scantly remember the episode "Valiant" and it not being... "Good." And I'd almost agree that "Profit and Lace" is "underrated" and "better" than people give it credit for. Not by much, but it's a humorous episode, but mostly because I find "gender swap stories" to be usually interesting and fun. (Though P&L dug a bit too much into female cliches, but I guess we don't entirely know how Female Ferengi behave considering we only ever met, what, two or three in the entire franchise? The one living as a male, and Moogie? So actually two?

So, eh, who's to say what Ferengi female hormones do to a Ferengi Quark's age.

The "Jack Pack" is a great group and wish we got more of them than the two episodes we get them in the series.

"Far Beyond the Stars" is good, but mostly just for the different setting and the actors being out of makeup and being different characters. In the end, I'm not "entirely" sure what we're supposed to get from the episode and the racism aspects just feels slightly out of place here, which plays to a problem I have with a scene later in the series.

(When the crew has to carry out a holosuite game to "save" the casino/Vic program and Sisko refuses to participate at first because the program too much cleans up the racial mentality of the 1960s (the period the program is set in.) Maybe Sisko's experience in FBtS played a bigger part in that, but it just seems really odd that in this "perfect" 24th century with humanity having finally grown up and things like racism is no longer a thing (at least for humans) that someone would be so bothered by the "washing" of things in a fictional program that's supposed to be more about an atmosphere and experience than it is a historical record of how things were 400 years earlier.

Today I get people being upset when this part of our history is glossed over because we still have these problems, so ignoring them is not helpful. By the 24th century? I think everyone would be over it and see what's in the past as being the past.

The bigger thing with my pause in the rewatch and with DS9 in general is just that it doesn't feel like Trek, and it's the problem it seems Discovery has too and why I'm not looking forward to the slated Picard series.

Trek is supposed to be about this hopeful, bright, future where man has grown up and acts for the betterment of society.

Wars and shit are going to happen, sure, but there are times when DS9 just feels too dark and "gritty" and to much like a future I wouldn't want to be in, as opposed to what we see in TNG and TOS. I mean, Bashir actually considers the notion that the Jack Pack is right and that the Federation is set to loose the war and we're looking at generations of oppression and misery.

It just doesn't "feel" right. For me.

But, I'll continue the series when I get settled in my new place.

By season 7, DS9 feels more like Star Wars than Star Trek, especially when episodes cut back and forth between Weyoun and Demar on Cardassia with Sisko on the station, just like Star Wars did with the Millenium Falcon and Star Destroyers. I enjoyed season 7, much more than season 6, and I'd like to hear your thoughts when you complete your rewatch.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Trek is supposed to be about this hopeful, bright, future where man has grown up and acts for the

A person who is cognizant of the evils of the past is being an adult.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, after a much longer hiatus than I had planned, i finished by rewatch.

As I said in my Badda-Bing thread, the last group of episodes I wasn't much looking forward to because it delved too much into the "darker" stuff I'm just not much a fan of, as well as the war arc.

There's still some good episodes in that final slate of episodes but in the end...

Meh.

I dunno, the ending I feel is kind of underwhelming. Sisko is dancing with Cassidy and just kind of says, "I know what have to do now!" runs off, takes a runabout to Bajor, gets into the fire cave then after a bit of a struggle just charges at Duakt and knocks him off a cliff.

Wow. Climatic.

And, I know it was sort of the series intent, aim, or whatever to not be quite as light-hearted and such but it just feels awkward leaving these characters here when even at the time it was pretty well known this would be the last we'd see of them as they weren't likely to get any movies. And. well, here we are decades later and well...Sisko still gone. Odo still in the Great Link... Why leave everyone so suspended? TNG knew they were going to movies so there was no need to wrap things up. Here? Everyone still suspended.

It's a good series but there's just many aspects of it I don't care for and I think the war was just too much. I mean what's it mean anymore where you showing scenes and scenes of spaceships being blown up and given death numbers in the 1000s?

But, my next rewatch is probably going to be a lot more difficult...

 

[Paul755]

I can’t think of very many out side of Behr that liked the end they came up with for Sisko. Including Brooks.

 

[Tosk]

I can’t think of very many out side of Behr that liked the end they came up with for Sisko. Including Brooks.

Perhaps you could instead list all the people that are on record as disliking it?

 

[Sidewinder]

@Trekker4747

Would you rather have had "Far Beyond The Stars" be how it ended and the whole thing was Benny Russell's dream?

IIRC, They actually were toying with that idea. I'd think that they'd have pissed a lot of people off by doing that.

 

[Trekker4747]

@Trekker4747

Would you rather have had "Far Beyond The Stars" be how it ended and the whole thing was Benny Russell's dream?

IIRC, They actually were toying with that idea. I'd think that they'd have pissed a lot of people off by doing that.

Yeahh.... I think that would have pissed off virtually everyone, including myself, with the suggestion the entire franchise was "a dream."

It'd be like, I dunno... ending a series with a little boy looking into a snowglobe of the titular hospital of the series and thus making the entire series a dream and as a side-effect due to cross-overs, spin-offs and the like it'd take a number of other series with it.

 

[kkt]

@Trekker4747

Would you rather have had "Far Beyond The Stars" be how it ended and the whole thing was Benny Russell's dream?

IIRC, They actually were toying with that idea. I'd think that they'd have pissed a lot of people off by doing that.

No. That's an okay way to end one episode, but dismissing the whole series as just a dream would not make me happy.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

@Trekker4747

Would you rather have had "Far Beyond The Stars" be how it ended and the whole thing was Benny Russell's dream?

IIRC, They actually were toying with that idea. I'd think that they'd have pissed a lot of people off by doing that.

I still hope that Far Beyond the Stars is a backdoor pilot.

 

[Desert Kris]

I've recently started watching through DS9. Depending on how far I make it, the first three seasons would be a re-watch, and 4-7 would be a first time viewing.

Reading TOS novels like Dwellers in the Crucible and Dreadnought! have suggested to me that I might be a little more receptive to accepting the way DS9 is a branches out from what I am familiar with from Star Trek stories.

Also, I keep seeing commercials for DS9 while cuing up recorded episodes of Doctor Who. I've heard so much about how this show gets credit for being one of the better ST series, so I've been curious.

One thing that is a little overwhelming to contemplate is the size of it, seven seasons of more than 20 episodes each. So I'm going to try and experiment with breaking the seasons up in to seasons that resemble some of the more modern shows I'm familiar with; seasons that are 10-13 episodes in length. And watch other stuff in between these mini-seasons, so I don't burn out. My first planned mini-season is Emissary through to Battle Lines, with Kai Opaka's introduction and departure as a book end. I remember how shocked I was watching that unfold, because Opaka made an impression on me and I expected that she would be more of a presence that she turned out to be. If this goes well (I'm up to the Q episode so far), I'll continue with a second artificial mini-season of The Storyteller through to the real-world three-part season debut (The Homecoming/The Circle/The Siege).

 

[kkt]

I've recently started watching through DS9. Depending on how far I make it, the first three seasons would be a re-watch, and 4-7 would be a first time viewing.

Reading TOS novels like Dwellers in the Crucible and Dreadnought! have suggested to me that I might be a little more receptive to accepting the way DS9 is a branches out from what I am familiar with from Star Trek stories.

Also, I keep seeing commercials for DS9 while cuing up recorded episodes of Doctor Who. I've heard so much about how this show gets credit for being one of the better ST series, so I've been curious.

One thing that is a little overwhelming to contemplate is the size of it, seven seasons of more than 20 episodes each. So I'm going to try and experiment with breaking the seasons up in to seasons that resemble some of the more modern shows I'm familiar with; seasons that are 10-13 episodes in length. And watch other stuff in between these mini-seasons, so I don't burn out. My first planned mini-season is Emissary through to Battle Lines, with Kai Opaka's introduction and departure as a book end. I remember how shocked I was watching that unfold, because Opaka made an impression on me and I expected that she would be more of a presence that she turned out to be. If this goes well (I'm up to the Q episode so far), I'll continue with a second artificial mini-season of The Storyteller through to the real-world three-part season debut (The Homecoming/The Circle/The Siege).

You could make like it's the 1990s and watch them in the original schedule, and take seven years

 

[Sidewinder]

I've recently started watching through DS9. Depending on how far I make it, the first three seasons would be a re-watch, and 4-7 would be a first time viewing.

Reading TOS novels like Dwellers in the Crucible and Dreadnought! have suggested to me that I might be a little more receptive to accepting the way DS9 is a branches out from what I am familiar with from Star Trek stories.

Also, I keep seeing commercials for DS9 while cuing up recorded episodes of Doctor Who. I've heard so much about how this show gets credit for being one of the better ST series, so I've been curious.

One thing that is a little overwhelming to contemplate is the size of it, seven seasons of more than 20 episodes each. So I'm going to try and experiment with breaking the seasons up in to seasons that resemble some of the more modern shows I'm familiar with; seasons that are 10-13 episodes in length. And watch other stuff in between these mini-seasons, so I don't burn out. My first planned mini-season is Emissary through to Battle Lines, with Kai Opaka's introduction and departure as a book end. I remember how shocked I was watching that unfold, because Opaka made an impression on me and I expected that she would be more of a presence that she turned out to be. If this goes well (I'm up to the Q episode so far), I'll continue with a second artificial mini-season of The Storyteller through to the real-world three-part season debut (The Homecoming/The Circle/The Siege).

4-7 are where the show hits it's stride and finishes on it's A game. And DS9 is the best Star Trek and it's not close.

 

[Farscape One]

Watching it in current era season format style... that's interesting. I've never thought about doing it like that.

I'm curious to see how it plays out with you. Definitely keep us updated.

 

[Desert Kris]

You could make like it's the 1990s and watch them in the original schedule, and take seven years

If I get in the groove, and am able to stick with it, I have considered adding Voyager in, and hitting TNG movies in the mix, too. I don't want to take 7 whole years, though.

Watching it in current era season format style... that's interesting. I've never thought about doing it like that.

I'm curious to see how it plays out with you. Definitely keep us updated.

I did a trial run with TOS, actually! I was going back and forth between a production order run of TOS, and Game of Thrones. It was nice to take each show in smaller doses, and I caught up with GoT quite quickly...and then was able to wait a year and extra for the final season.

I'll try and make a point of checking back in here after Kai Opaka's send-off story.

 

[Desert Kris]

Okay, I promised I would return and post when I hit my first milestone, with the episode Battle Lines. It took me a couple weeks, partly because I haven't been able to watch an episode every single day, and I actually started off watch half of an episode per day at first (I sometimes do this until I get into the groove, I can't explain).

Somewhere around the episodes The Passenger and Move Along Home, a copy of the Deep Space 9 companion arrived in the mail. This is one of a number of factors that has made me want to go back and give DS9 another chance. A couple months ago I saw a copy of it at a used book store and casually flipped through it on a whim. I was shocked by the density of it's behind-the-scenes coverage, and seeing all kinds of concept art scattered throughout. The moment it hooked me, though, was when I flipped to the pages showing the sketched out map of Bajor, which really captured my imagination. I foolishly put the book back on the shelf, and it was gone a week later. But that map of Bajor was like some kind of mindworm that stuck in my head. When I started watching, I started looking online for reasonably priced copies in reasonably good condition.

As far as the actual watching goes, how did this fare for me? I had fun with it. I kind of vaguely remember a lot of these episodes, and they were fine to revisit. I had seen Emissary a bunch of times since it was taped off TV. After seeing it several times, I was shocked that Kira had a much shorter hairstyle, going into the rest of the first season. Emissary is still a strong intro story, I would say it still holds up as one of the strongest starts for a Star Trek show.

I really enjoyed Past Prologue, Captive Pursuit, and Dax. Captive Pursuit is still one of the more memorable stories from way back. To get myself more into the groove, I watch an old TV trailer for Past Prologue off of Youtube, and I was really excited about that story. I was worried about Dax, because sometime stories that are structured like a hearing or inquiry or trial fill me with reservations, even though many work out well in the end. The actor who plays the judge character was really fun to watch asserting how she doesn't have patience for garbage. I was impressed by how the trial format worked well for exploring the nature of the Trill species.

The Passenger and Move Along Home was a rough patch. The Passenger started out well, and was suitably creepy, but I was devastatingly disappointed by Siddig's performance as the ghoulish villain who is sharing Bashir's mind. I've like Siddig's acting in everything else I've seen him in, and The Passenger was crushing to me. It didn't help that he seemed a little off in Move Along Home, too; which was a fun episode but it could have been more fun. I was actually impressed by Armin Shimmerman's performance as he reacts to the idea that Sisko and his officers are in danger because of his game. It's a weird moment, because it is Quark, showing more concern than I expect for those characters, but the performance is striking.

As far as making it a mini-season, ending with Battle Lines? It doesn't quite work, as a pretend season-finale, or mid-season finale or whatever, but it's a dividing line that I recognized. I'm not going to ding the episode for that kind of false context. I have a strong memory of this one, being shocked at the fate of Kai Opaka, and no wonder. I remember that her absence gives rise to another character who I was really uncomfortable with. I was surprised by how bleak this episode turned out, but at the same time I respect that the story was taken in that direction. There's nothing reassuring about it, and I think that's a strong aspect of it.

As far as storylines that bleed across the episodes, I enjoyed watching the unfolding of Jake and Nog's friendship, and the tension it creates for Benjamin Sisko. After hinting that Nog is a bad apple who will take Jake in the wrong direction, I was rather taken by the moment when Benjamin discovers that Jake is teaching Nog to read. It's fun watching Quark and Odo prod each other. I liked Keiko's story of starting a frontier school, but it's a little disappointing that she's disappeared from the station for such an extended period of time.

Anyway, that's my round-up for my first mini-season of DS9, which is all re-watch at this point. I feel committed to getting through the next round, which is meant to take me through the latter half of the actual season 1, and end with the three-part season premier of the second season. I'm really curious to revisit that three-parter, I remember that being huge back in the day as Star Trek's first three-part story.

I will take a little break for a couple weeks, and watch through the second season of Star Trek Discovery. I will try to make a point of checking back in when I start back up on DS9 again.

 

[Don Drutherford]

I have just started to re-watch "DS9" (again) Some of the humorous aspects of Rom (and they way they present them). For instance, When Quark is being questioned about Zek's death, Nog pops up to reminds Sisko that it is now "Grand Nagus Quark", and slowly retreats back and down out of the shot. Stuff like that . I guess that might be considered more to di with the directing than the actual actor.