Deep Space 9 and Vulcans
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Trek has never been great about handling aliens. When TNG rolled around, Gene and some of the other staff were reluctant about using Vulcans and other TOS races because they were afraid people would always associate Spock with Vulcan. I've sometimes felt as though they considered it necessary to "hand hold" the audience in ways that probably weren't a necessity. Much like Gene didn't like the original idea to have Kirk command a different ship in TMP, because he felt the audience would somehow forget the Enterprise.
It wasn't an overly conscious effort. I seem to remember reading in the Companion that Behr wasn't a huge fan of them though. There's always been an air of smug superiority to the Vulcans. That's why he used Vulcans as the rivals in the baseball game. Besides, he needed a group that would be plausibly superior athletes to Sisko, Kira, Worf, and Bashir.
I don't think they were really needed. I mean, having a Vulcan there to have a Vulcan there wouldn't have added much, I would think. Perhaps another thinking is that DS9 is so far out in the Federation fringes, seeing the "inner members" would be unlikely (except, of course, for humans).
Unicron said:
Trek has never been great about handling aliens. When TNG rolled around, Gene and some of the other staff were reluctant about using Vulcans and other TOS races because they were afraid people would always associate Spock with Vulcan. I've sometimes felt as though they considered it necessary to "hand hold" the audience in ways that probably weren't a necessity. Much like Gene didn't like the original idea to have Kirk command a different ship in TMP, because he felt the audience would somehow forget the Enterprise.
That's interesting, so you're inferring that the show always more about the ship than the crew itself?
Not necessarily, but I think perhaps that is how Gene might have seen it. The ship was indeed a character in its own right, as all the Enterprises have been. If you change the ship, it's like removing a crew member. Originally the crew would have been on a new ship entirely, with an 1800 registry. When Andrew Probert was initially designing the movie version, he had dubbed the uprated version "Enterprise Class" to denote that it was different from the TOS version, but again Gene didn't like that. That is why the movie version is still referred to as a Constitution Class in canon and official works, while Enterprise Class is common in most unofficial tech sources.
Unicron said:
Not necessarily, but I think perhaps that is how Gene might have seen it. The ship was indeed a character in its own right, as all the Enterprises have been. If you change the ship, it's like removing a crew member. Originally the crew would have been on a new ship entirely, with an 1800 registry. When Andrew Probert was initially designing the movie version, he had dubbed the uprated version "Enterprise Class" to denote that it was different from the TOS version, but again Gene didn't like that. That is why the movie version is still referred to as a Constitution Class in canon and official works, while Enterprise Class is common in most unofficial tech sources.
Interesting. If I may ask, how do you know so much of the insider information on the show?
It's mainly from various things I've heard and read on the net over the years. I generally try to make sure that my recollections are accurate, as I know what I read isn't always correct. When Gene first planned to do TNG, he initially wanted it to be a completely separate series - nothing from the original show was to be included. The other staff eventually convinced him otherwise. This story is mentioned in Star Trek: Where No One Has Gone Before.
Personally, I think some aspects of it were simply a reflection of Gene's personality. He naturally wanted to be very protective of his vision for Trek. And perhaps there have been times when it was meant well but backfired, as it makes little sense to me for the movie design to not be a separate class.
Personally, I think some aspects of it were simply a reflection of Gene's personality. He naturally wanted to be very protective of his vision for Trek. And perhaps there have been times when it was meant well but backfired, as it makes little sense to me for the movie design to not be a separate class.
If you'll remember The Maquis, Part II, Quark managed to use logic to beat Sakonna, the Vulcan gun-runner, in an argument! 
To a certain extent, the shallow, jerk-like Vulcans who serve as comic villains - Captain Solok - or surprise villains - Sakonna, Chu'lak... are precursors to the annoying, uppity Vulcans on Enterprise, whose behaviour was retconned away in such a manner to make the DS9 Vulcans even more inexpliable. I guess, even after a psychic reform, soonr or later the jerkish tendencies of these green-blooded guys reasserts itself.
Unicron said:
It's mainly from various things I've heard and read on the net over the years. I generally try to make sure that my recollections are accurate, as I know what I read isn't always correct. When Gene first planned to do TNG, he initially wanted it to be a completely separate series - nothing from the original show was to be included. The other staff eventually convinced him otherwise. This story is mentioned in Star Trek: Where No One Has Gone Before.
Personally, I think some aspects of it were simply a reflection of Gene's personality. He naturally wanted to be very protective of his vision for Trek. And perhaps there have been times when it was meant well but backfired, as it makes little sense to me for the movie design to not be a separate class.
Plus it was originally supposed to be 200 years in the future on the Enterprise G
3D Master
Rear Admiral
A lot of the Vulcan other than Spock we met in TOS were jerkish as well. Seriously, Vulcans are not without emotion, they control their emotions as best as they can, but not every Vulcan is as nice as Spock, just like not every Human being is Ghandi. This whole concept that every single Vulcan should be Spock's and Tuvok's mirror is ridiculous.
Hell, strictly speaking, Spock was often times just as much a jerk. How often didn't he claim to be "insulted" when he was called human (even when strictly speaking it's true, since he's half human and has a human mother)? How often didn't he call humanity a bunch of violent barbarians?
The sweet nice Vulcans didn't really come around until the TNG and Voyager, and suddenly everyone wants all Vulcans to be sweet and nice.
Hell, strictly speaking, Spock was often times just as much a jerk. How often didn't he claim to be "insulted" when he was called human (even when strictly speaking it's true, since he's half human and has a human mother)? How often didn't he call humanity a bunch of violent barbarians?
The sweet nice Vulcans didn't really come around until the TNG and Voyager, and suddenly everyone wants all Vulcans to be sweet and nice.
It seems as thought he only way the writers of any of these series could manage to write an "emotionless" character was to make them total douches. In order to make them not come across as douches, they had to give them the T'Pol treatment, i.e. make her whacked out on goofballs.
Ok, maybe a stretch, but you get the idea. Imagine the pitfalls of attempting to write drama with characters who don't emote. It would take some skill.
Ok, maybe a stretch, but you get the idea. Imagine the pitfalls of attempting to write drama with characters who don't emote. It would take some skill.
I agree, and that's why I especially enjoyed the part in the Enterprise episode "Judgment" where Archer's Klingon advocate indicates to him that the Klingons were once a more rounded people, with thriving culture and scientific inquiry, untampered with by the military. It was an interesting layer to add to what I've always considered an otherwise two dimensional species.
I never got that vibe from the Original Series Vulcans. Granting we didn't get to know many very well; but those we did -- Sarak and the illusionary-but-iconic Surak -- were quite charming people. Those we knew less well were T'Pau, who I can't classify as a ``jerk'', and T'Pring, who was an antagonist, but that doesn't by itself make her a jerk.
(The other Vulcans, up through Saavik and Valeris, were basically cameos; the one who gets the most dialogue is Sonak, where we learn not really much about him except he appreciates being given a sweet assignment.)
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