Decanonize Nemesis

[Psion]

Nah ... the timeline leading from TOS to Nemesis is one timeline or reality (at least). Trek 2009 introduces us to a new timeline; one that had significant alterations from Nero's intrusions, but already had differences from Trek Prime. Trek 2009 is a little like the Mirror Universe; a place where the writers can play without invoking the wrath of hardcore canon lawyers who'd bicker over ultimately petty details.

 

[TheGodBen]

IF it was "Deconniized" what exactly happens?

You put it in a room with blue lights and you rub gel all over it.

The canon doesn't matter anymore, Trek Prime is over and we're probably not going to see it on screen ever again. But even if it did matter then I still wouldn't want it removed because it's not the worst Trek film around and if crap like Threshold and TFF get to be in the canon then so does Nemesis.

 

[Vger]

Am I the only one who thinks that Insurrection is a bigger steaming pile than Nemesis?

No.

 

[Anika Hanson]

I dont see what events in nemesis are so bad/controversial that it should not be cannon. Of course data died but they resurrected him with the B4 anyway.

 

[cooleddie74]

NEMESIS isn't an evil or horrendous film by a longshot. Just...supremely disappointing on most levels.

 

[Keith1701]

No Way

 

[Jono]

Decanonising Nemesis is not necessary.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

Absolutely it should be de canonized. It ruined Star Trek TNG. Data did not need to die dammit! The only condition I would accept would be if there were a follow up in which the B4 through techno babble became Data again. Oh the Remans made no sense either, the whole thing was travesty. De canonize it I say!

I think it was necessary to kill off Data, much as I love him. The character can't age, and unfortunately Brent Spiner can. He looks markedly different now than he did in 1988. How would you explain that?

 

[EVL_Ripper]

I vote no simply cause the Norexan Class Warbirds are canon and kick ass.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Scimitar WAS a badass ship. Damn shame its crew was a supreme letdown.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Nemesis is the only Trek film that I wanted to walk out of. I can't watch (let alone believe that DH bought) the DVD.

I quite enjoyed Insurrection. Then again I liked The Final Frontier.

I can still remember the look on the faces of the people I saw NEMESIS with when we came out...the entire crowd had the look as if they were zombies...it was that bad. TTF, which I too like, didn't have nearly that effect because, with-in TTF, there are some good scenes and great character moments...NOTHING can be taken away from Nemesis.

And I see a few of you proNEMESIS folks on this thread. What exactly did you like about that awful movie? Even the actors who are in it are starting to say how bad a movie it was. The only reason why SPINER isn't, is because he,and Stewart, are partially responsible for the creation of that movie....

Rob

 

[RyuRoots]

Even the actors who are in it are starting to say how bad a movie it was. The only reason why SPINER isn't, is because he,and Stewart, are partially responsible for the creation of that movie...

You do realize that's still just opinion, right? Some of us just just simply *gasp* enjoyed it or thought it had more good than bad. That's it.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Even the actors who are in it are starting to say how bad a movie it was. The only reason why SPINER isn't, is because he,and Stewart, are partially responsible for the creation of that movie...

You do realize that's still just opinion, right? Some of us just just simply *gasp* enjoyed it or thought it had more good than bad. That's it.

And...what did you exacty like about it. I wont attack your response; promise. I just want to know. I can sit here and point out aspects that I liked about TTF (the character moments...Sybok..ect). But outside "enjoying it" I never hear any reason as to why..so...why?

Rob

 

[Klaitu]

I've never suggesting decanonizing anything, that is, removing it from the official Universe but Nemesis needs to be decanonized.

Despite the fact that it's just one of the worst films of all time right up there with Battlefield Earth, it's all by far the most damaging story to the franchise ever put on film... from beginning to end.

I'm not a big fan if TFF but it's tolerable and I never agreed with GR's notion that it should be decanonized and for good reason: as stupid as it is, it doesn't damage the franchise. Nemesis has damaged it irreparably and we need to all pretend that it doesn't exist and move forward.

I am interested to hear how the mistakes in Nemesis are greater than the mistakes of the other films.

Insurrection, in my opinion, has a greater number of damaging mistakes to the franchise. Federation cloaking devices? Ships from a backwater race that are more than a match for a Sovereign class? Trying to relocate a society for the fountain of youth?

Do I really need to go into the boob comments or the stupid joystick?

In terms of franchise-wrecking firepower, I'm going to have to say that Insurrection certainly has a much larger arsenal.

That's not to say that Nemesis didn't have problems.. the biggest two being the violation of the prime directive on Kolarus III and the thumbnail-sized "plot-device transporter"... but I don't think these are franchise-wrecking level mistakes. They're just dumb.

 

[RyuRoots]

And...what did you exacty like about it. I wont attack your response; promise. I just want to know. I can sit here and point out aspects that I liked about TTF (the character moments...Sybok..ect). But outside "enjoying it" I never hear any reason as to why..so...why?

You're missing the point. There are specific things I enjoyed like the reception scene or some of the ship-to-ship action, but I don't need a "reason". I just thought it was a cool, fun movie all in all. People don't need to justify it. Some people just enjoyed Nemesis. Some people like things that you don't. It's not difficult.

And I agree with Klaitu that Insurrection had more "Oh come on, wtf" problems.

 

[USS KG5]

there will still be a few fans and casual viewers who might actually like it.

I like it, and one of my friends says it is his favourite trek movie.

It has some bloody silly bits in it, is not a patch on FC let alone the superb new movie, but it is not THAT bad.

People on this board go way overboard with their bitching about it.

 

[RobertScorpio]

And...what did you exacty like about it. I wont attack your response; promise. I just want to know. I can sit here and point out aspects that I liked about TTF (the character moments...Sybok..ect). But outside "enjoying it" I never hear any reason as to why..so...why?

You're missing the point. There are specific things I enjoyed like the reception scene or some of the ship-to-ship action, but I don't need a "reason". I just thought it was a cool, fun movie all in all. People don't need to justify it. Some people just enjoyed Nemesis. Some people like things that you don't. It's not difficult.

And I agree with Klaitu that Insurrection had more "Oh come on, wtf" problems.

Okay..thats cool. Look, you are preaching to the choir here. I think TTF is one of the best TREK movies, so in away, both of us are in this together.

And I agree with you and Klaitu, Insurrection is the movie that ruined TNG, in my opinion. Coming after FC, Insurrection had an easy task. But it choked up on its need to 'set a different tone'...but oh well...

But yeah...NEMESIS/TTF fans unite!!!

Rob

 

[TheGodBen]

But yeah...NEMESIS/TTF fans unite!!!

And an unholy union was born.

 

[cooleddie74]

But yeah...NEMESIS/TTF fans unite!!!

And an unholy union was born.

The offspring of which will have three 6's on each of their heads and think plot loopholes are something to be cherished and passed on.