Decanonize Nemesis

[CaptainHawk1]

I've never suggesting decanonizing anything, that is, removing it from the official Universe but Nemesis needs to be decanonized.

Despite the fact that it's just one of the worst films of all time right up there with Battlefield Earth, it's all by far the most damaging story to the franchise ever put on film... from beginning to end.

I'm not a big fan if TFF but it's tolerable and I never agreed with GR's notion that it should be decanonized and for good reason: as stupid as it is, it doesn't damage the franchise. Nemesis has damaged it irreparably and we need to all pretend that it doesn't exist and move forward.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Ever try squeezing the toothpaste back into the tube?

Much as I dislike the movie, it's like trying to un-remember a bad car wreck you were in... only head trauma or drugs can dampen those memories.

 

[Psion]

Decanonizing Nemesis will do what, exactly? Give fans an opportunity to shout down any mention by others? Meanwhile the casual audience will continue to bring it up. It will still have been produced. And, remarkably, there will still be a few fans and casual viewers who might actually like it.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Am I the only one who thinks that Insurrection is a bigger steaming pile than Nemesis?

 

[KiraDax]

There are people who actually like Nemesis, myself included.

It's called opinion. Everyone is entitled to a separate one. And one or two alone aren't grounds for 'decanonization'. You don't get to throw out everything you dislike in life.

 

[Karnbeln]

"Canon" is, really, just the body of works writers are beholden to respect when writing a story. With no more stories taking place after Nemesis for the time being, it doesn't really matter whether it's canon or not, does it?

If you don't want to include it in what you think of as the timeline of the Star Trek universe, good for you. But that has nothing to do with canon, and fans need to stop pretending that's what canon is.

And I wouldn't say Nemesis killed the franchise. It was already dying, and didn't die until a few years later. Pretending it all had to do with one movie is just being in denial that people were losing interest in Star Trek in general at the time.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

The only way to officially decanonize it would be to film something that takes place after it, and which directly indicates that the events of the film never happened. That is not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future, if ever. However, if you don't want to accept the film you can just declare that it is not part of your own personal canon and be happy with that.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

I'll also add that, although Nemesis was flawed, one of the things it did right was to not end with everything and everyone back where they started, like one of the TV episodes. I enjoy film series that are meant to be watched in order as each one builds upon the one before it. If for some reason they had filmed a fifth TNG movie, I would have wanted them to acknowledge that Data was dead and that Riker and Troi are now married and working on the Titan and so on. If decanonization meant ignoring that, it would undo one thing I actually liked about Nemesis.

Am I the only one who thinks that Insurrection is a bigger steaming pile than Nemesis?

I also think Nemesis is not as bad as Insurrection, but to be honest I don't hate either film.

 

[BriGuy]

Despite the fact that it's just one of the worst films of all time right up there with Battlefield Earth, it's all by far the most damaging story to the franchise ever put on film... from beginning to end.

In your opinion.

I'm not a big fan if TFF but it's tolerable and I never agreed with GR's notion that it should be decanonized and for good reason: as stupid as it is, it doesn't damage the franchise. Nemesis has damaged it irreparably and we need to all pretend that it doesn't exist and move forward.

So you can dismiss the opinion of the man who created the thing. Interesting.

In my opinion, TFF did nearly sink the franchise, being a 20-foot deep, 10-foot wide pothole coming right after the success of TVH. I may find things to like in TFF, and may appreciate it more now, but at the time, I was pretty disappointed with it.

In my opinion, Nemesis is superior to TFF.

 

[john titor]

Absolutely it should be de canonized. It ruined Star Trek TNG. Data did not need to die dammit! The only condition I would accept would be if there were a follow up in which the B4 through techno babble became Data again. Oh the Remans made no sense either, the whole thing was travesty. De canonize it I say!

 

[BriGuy]

Absolutely it should be de canonized. It ruined Star Trek TNG. Data did not need to die dammit! The only condition I would accept would be if there were a follow up in which the B4 through techno babble became Data again. Oh the Remans made no sense either, the whole thing was travesty. De canonize it I say!

I LOVE the fact that Data "died" in this movie.

It's far past time that Trek characters die and stay dead.

Same for Trip in Enterprise.

People die. Machines stop working. Life goes on. It's part of the "human adventure"... wasn't that what Trek was supposed to be about?

Sacrificing himself and "dying" was the most human thing Data could ever do. Downloading his memory into the empty vessel B4 cheapened and lessened it, imo. If there was anything wrong with what was done, THAT was it.

 

[JustKate]

I voted no. Cardinal Biggles is on to something with that toothpaste metaphor of his.

Good, bad or indifferent, it is what it is, it was created by the folks who have the legal right to do stuff and call it "Trek," and those are the plain facts.

 

[RyuRoots]

There are people who actually like Nemesis, myself included.

Well, glad to know that I'm not alone.

I think 'decanonizing' Nemesis would be stupid, whether you like it or not. I hate TMP and TWOK, but I wouldn't suggest removing them from canon based on that. It's all a matter of personal taste. And no. "We all" need to accept that it's there like mature people and deal with it. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

 

[ltcmmanderdata]

i think decanonizing nemesis would cause more problems than it would solve.

 

[john titor]

Absolutely it should be de canonized. It ruined Star Trek TNG. Data did not need to die dammit! The only condition I would accept would be if there were a follow up in which the B4 through techno babble became Data again. Oh the Remans made no sense either, the whole thing was travesty. De canonize it I say!

I LOVE the fact that Data "died" in this movie.

It's far past time that Trek characters die and stay dead.

Same for Trip in Enterprise.

People die. Machines stop working. Life goes on. It's part of the "human adventure"... wasn't that what Trek was supposed to be about?

Sacrificing himself and "dying" was the most human thing Data could ever do. Downloading his memory into the empty vessel B4 cheapened and lessened it, imo. If there was anything wrong with what was done, THAT was it.

No! Data was meant to be an Oxford don, not dead. I don't agree with this. If anything a redshirt should have died. Not the main crew. I wanted to see Data as a professor giving lectures on quantum theory and the humanities, not sacrificing himself for humanity, so species narcissistic. The last TNG film should have been a laid back philosophical affair with a good meditative plot, maybe like that film about the wine tasters, not a dumb action movie.

 

[Falcor5]

I dont see how you can decanonize Nemesis. For better or worst its part of Treks history now.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

You can't really decanonize it, obviously. But if you could, would you unring the bell or put the toothpaste back in the tube?

In the canon universe that exists in your head can you dismiss Nemesis? I can.

So you can dismiss the opinion of the man who created the thing. Interesting.

Sure can. GR was wrong about a lot, including but not limited to TFF. I've never understood the unquestioned reverence for GR.

 

[Cyke101]

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. We can't decanonize Nemesis, or else we might get something even worse down the line!

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. We can't decanonize Nemesis, or else we might get something even worse down the line!

Well, I think that just about sums it up!

How friggin' true.

 

[Trilliam]

Nemesis is the only Trek film that I wanted to walk out of. I can't watch (let alone believe that DH bought) the DVD.

I quite enjoyed Insurrection. Then again I liked The Final Frontier.