Deadline reporting new Trek series, what about fan productions?

[Maurice]

Let’s play what if for a moment.
...

1. Offer a reasonably priced, but limited, Star Trek license to fan productions....

I've said it before, just the time it takes to draw up the contracts can be expensive. The amount of money CBS could make from such deals would likely never amount to their costs, be they legal, accounting, or even fees they'd incur to do an audit. Just. Not. Worth. It. (I suppose they could draft a boilerplate take-it-or-leave-it agreement, but, again, the legal costs incurred if a breach occurred still likely wouldn't make it a profitable venture.)

3. Promote quality of licensed productions by offering a library of digital cgi assets they are able to access and use in their final product at no additional cost.

More cost to create and host/make available said assets.

6. Create an outlet, online, via their All Access streaming service, or any other method they wish, for the production to be viewed by audiences...

...more cost, further lowering any profit.

The act of getting into a business relationship with fan filmmakers could actually put CBS at greater risk of a lawsuit than the current "look the other way" policy. Right now, CBS can ignore the fan films until or if they become a nuisance, and then smack them with a C&D letter if they feel threatened. It's cheaper. Trust me, I was involved as an expert witness in an arbitration over just such an contract in the videogame industry, and sometimes a contract that was meant to protect you can come back and bite you on the tuchus.

In short, CBS would have to decide that there's enough profit for them—be that direct monetary of P.R. value—order to justify the cost and risks associated with making such a thing happen. Sans said upside, no incentive to do it.

 

[Karzak]

Karzak, haven't they already, to an extent,done this with allowing the Strange New Worlds fan fiction anthology?

That's entirely different; we're talking about filmmaking and production. You're talking about fan fiction being submitted to an open contest for an anthology of the best fan fiction to become part of the novel-universe canon. (No story of which, I might add, ultimately had any impact on the storylines or ability to produce any of the live-action productions.)

Also, Strange New Worlds is long since over.


Also, in reply to the poster above who suggested that if Axanar became popular, CBS/Paramount would have to pay Alec Peters "millions" for it -- not likely. Peters doesn't own a shred of anything that is being done in Axanar outside of the Garth tunic he got at some auction. If CBS wanted to, they could swoop in and sieze or order destroyed everything involved that relates to Star Trek. Probably not gonna happen, but its always possible.

 

[CJCade]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I don't see the difference, CBS, I believe, licenses Star Trek to Simon & Schuster who then calls for and reads hundreds if not thousands of submissions from Star Trek fans. To me, this is in essence CBS "colluded with same in the past". Yes, it's publishing, not tv or film, but it is still a CBS owned property.

I may be entirely wrong here, and if so, I apologize for my ignorance on the matter.

And while Strange New Worlds had been done with, it's back.

 

[Warped9]

But if I understand it correctly the moment any of those submissions are accepted and published the writer loses all rights to it. They become the property of CBS.

 

[steam235]

Also, in reply to the poster above who suggested that if Axanar became popular, CBS/Paramount would have to pay Alec Peters "millions" for it -- not likely. Peters doesn't own a shred of anything that is being done in Axanar outside of the Garth tunic he got at some auction. If CBS wanted to, they could swoop in and sieze or order destroyed everything involved that relates to Star Trek. Probably not gonna happen, but its always possible.

Perhaps not millions, apologies for hyperbole. But Alec has copyrighted the Ares. (Which I think is crazy as it's clearly the Titan done with a TOS skin.) The Klingon and various other characters have been made for this production. I imagine that if they wanted to use any of their names of the Ares ship design The Axanar crew could hold things up a bit.

Think of how Trapper John was from MASH but couldn't talk about MASH. Trapper John characters didn't default to being MASH characters.

But these matters only highlight one thing. The best course of action is for CBS to pretend these productions don't exist. If they are ever backed into acknowledging them they'll have to state firmly that all of Star Trek is theirs alone.

 

[Karzak]

Alec can copyright all he wants, there's no way he'd be able to defend and keep anything from Axanar if CBS or Paramount decided to slam the IP ownership hammer down on his ass. If you think otherwise, you're just being naive.

As for Strange New Worlds, again: you're talking about book anthologies. There are no actors, WGA writers, producers, directors, production crew, unions, or studios to consider. You might think the two are basically the same but publishing a book has considerations and legal ramifications entirely different and probably less far-reaching than those of a television or film production.

 

[Maurice]

Just because you write Copyright or © on something or even file it with the Copyright office doesn't mean the Copyright is valid. CBS could challenge any such Copyright if they felt it was too derivative of any work they hold a Copyright, Trademark or Patent on.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Just because you write Copyright or © on something or even file it with the Copyright office doesn't mean the Copyright is valid. CBS could challenge any such Copyright if they felt it was too derivative of any work they hold a Copyright, Trademark or Patent on.

The Ares trademark probably has more to do with keeps my your and I from using it, than it does CBS... But I do find I'd rather ballsy to copyright it

 

[Maurice]

Just to clarify, a Trademark is simply a registered name ™ or a registered visual mark ® used to make sure people who buy your brand know they're getting the real deal and not that of a competitor.

The name STAR TREK is a ™ but the logotype is an ®, as is the "flying A"/delta/arrowhead thing, etc. But that's the name/logo/visual mark, not the product.

As such one could ™ or ® the name/logo "Ares" for a particular line of products and that would be valid (so long as it doesn't infringe on an existing trademark and cause confusion), but the design of the item to which the Trademarked name is applied could still be contested as a Copyright or Patent infringement.

In short, the two are not directly connected, thus a valid Copyright ≠ valid Trademark or vice versa.

 

[JoeZhang]

Just because you write Copyright or © on something or even file it with the Copyright office doesn't mean the Copyright is valid. CBS could challenge any such Copyright if they felt it was too derivative of any work they hold a Copyright, Trademark or Patent on.

The Ares trademark probably has more to do with keeps my your and I from using it, than it does CBS... But I do find I'd rather ballsy to copyright it

But but.. my Axanar fan-fiction is going to be done out of love!

 

[fireproof78]

^^
You too?

 

[Jedman67]

If CBS likes something seen in a fan film, they could just pretend they came up with it themselves and make it their own. In the off chance that someone sues CBS for "stealing" their idea, they settle out of court.
Slightly related, I believe the original TOS cast sued paramount after the DS9 "Trials and Tribulations" for using their appearance and not paying royalties.

 

[Jedman67]

I think I'm going to make my own Star Trek fan film too. It will be about a group of out of work actors who enlist in Starfleet.

 

[Squiggy]

If CBS likes something seen in a fan film, they could just pretend they came up with it themselves and make it their own. In the off chance that someone sues CBS for "stealing" their idea, they settle out of court..

I don't think it would be much of a case. CBS owns it. You can't make money off someone else's intellectual property and then sue them when they take it back.

 

[fireproof78]

If CBS likes something seen in a fan film, they could just pretend they came up with it themselves and make it their own. In the off chance that someone sues CBS for "stealing" their idea, they settle out of court..

I don't think it would be much of a case. CBS owns it. You can't make money off someone else's intellectual property and then sue them when they take it back.

That does not mean people will not try, you know

 

[Jedman67]

If CBS likes something seen in a fan film, they could just pretend they came up with it themselves and make it their own. In the off chance that someone sues CBS for "stealing" their idea, they settle out of court..

I don't think it would be much of a case. CBS owns it. You can't make money off someone else's intellectual property and then sue them when they take it back.

Not exactly. TNG and DS9 frequently accepted spec scripts from freelancers, who were required to be paid under certain rules for the story.
If i write an unlicensed star trek novel, i own the rights to the story even though i do not own the rights to some of the characters and settings. There's two different aspects of the IP and who owns what. I have no experience with media law so this is entirely my speculation.

 

[Karzak]

I have no experience with media law so this is entirely my speculation.

You should have led with this, because it's the only thing you're 100% correct about.

The freelancers on TNG and DS9 were only paid if the producers chose to purchase their scripts. That has nothing to do with IP law and everything to do with WGA union rules about compensation for work done.

Perhaps Dennis would be good enough to weigh in on this. He's the only one here who can really comment on the topic with any practical experience on the matter.

 

[Mudd]

Not exactly. TNG and DS9 frequently accepted spec scripts from freelancers, who were required to be paid under certain rules for the story.

What you're saying is that when TNG and DS9 bought material from freelancers they paid the freelancers. That's not what's being discussed here.

 

[Jedman67]

Not exactly. TNG and DS9 frequently accepted spec scripts from freelancers, who were required to be paid under certain rules for the story.

What you're saying is that when TNG and DS9 bought material from freelancers they paid the freelancers. That's not what's being discussed here.

I guess what im trying to say is that if CBS bases a story off a published, unlicensed work; is there any grounds for the creator of the story to claim that, putting aside the IP elements for which he didn't have permission to use, that the studio used his work without compensation?
Regardless of the probability of winning (a long shot) such a claim.

 

[UssGlenn]

I know there have been several cases of writers suing because after they submitted scripts to studios and were rejected and later the studio made films the writers felt were derived from the earlier work, but I don't know the results of any of those cases. Adding a layer of non-original characters just complicates things.