DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm going to buy #2 of all the books I bought this month...though if I were new to Green Lantern I don't know that I would have based on this month. OTOH, maybe I'd have liked it better if I didn't already have expectations of the title. No way to know, I guess, and it doesn't matter.

If I had to pick a "second-iffiest" it would be Superboy - but I've enjoyed all of the books quite a bit, so that's only relative.

 

[the G-man]

So, to some degree DC's just acknowledging that it's time to stop pretending that the success of these sorts of stories is or should be considered as outliers or exceptions. While there may be something unavoidably naive at the core of superhero narratives, the industry is not going to be made or broken by the devotion of nine year-old boys, but by intriguing - and yeah, sometimes titillating - a core audience that has grown older and can be appealed to by material that's more sophisticated in presentation and subject matter if not actually more mature in content.

agreed.

The problem with that theory is that it doesn't bring in new readers and hasn't brought in new readers. All it does is titillate a core audience that shrinks every year and, eventually, will be dead.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, Batman and Superman are the only two characters I'm interested in really following. I only want to get Supergirl because the opening page(s) previewed earlier looked interesting, as did the Wonder Woman pages I've seen. And then Catwoman for all of the fan-service that's apparently in it.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The problem with that theory is that it doesn't bring in new readers and hasn't brought in new readers.

Wrong. It's not a theory, and it's working right now.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Today's Shortpacked! seems relevant to the thread:
http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/04-remedial-adulthood/math/

That sums up my thoughts pretty well on how badly DC has handled this whole thing. The object should have been a focus on quality and accessibility. So far there has been little of either.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Well here's what I got going now:

Subscribed to Action Comics, Detective Comics, Superman and Batman, all of which I should get the #1's for (AC1 I have in-hand. The others I subscribed to during the time where DC "gaurnties" the #1 issues, if I end up not getting them I will just seek them out in other places.)

I'll probably get Supergirl, Catwoman and Wonder Woman #1s as those all look interesting, probably get them at a store or on Amazon.

If I were you I'd switch out Detective for Batman and Robin.

 

[theenglish]

I thought Detective was much better than Batman and Robin.

 

[Broccoli]

This made me chuckle.

 

[JoeZhang]

Without debating the message behind that cartoon, I love how the artist has taken the time to give Starfire a proper 'broken spine' comic pose.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@Broc that was hilarious. I'm sure that there were some fans that had the same reaction in real life after reading the issue. Still kind of bizarre what they've done with Kori.

I was ultimately disappointed with Detective and it's because I'm not a Tony Daniels fan at all, I will as I stated see where the Joker arc goes/is resolved but beyond that I'll most likely be dropping the book. So far the only two Bat-Family books I've really enjoyed are "Batman" and "Batman and Robin", followed by "Catwoman", "Batgirl", and then "Red Hood and the Outlaws" which I'm really seriously considering dropping. The only books that have really excited me so far are "Batman" and "Action Comics". Of course I also await the return of "Batman, Inc".

 

[JoeZhang]

Couple of other takes on this Catwoman/Starfire stuff:

http://tytempletonart.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/websized-revised1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WgWIadPivMg/Tn1UosAmk1I/AAAAAAAAB9U/cOfJW2gzl7k/s1600/batsncats.jpg

 

[Captain Craig]

@Broc @Zoe - great cartoon editorials on the Catwoman/Starfire "empowerment" issues.


In other related news to the last batch of new #1s this week is the celebration of Aquaman's 70th birthday!! It was this week 70yr ago he first appeared in More Fun Comics #73. Fitting this should be the week for his #1!!

Who's getting Aquaman #1 besides me?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

@Broc that was hilarious. I'm sure that there were some fans that had the same reaction in real life after reading the issue.

There always are. Loss of some readers is factored in.

 

[Myasishchev]

Couple of other takes on this Catwoman/Starfire stuff:

http://tytempletonart.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/websized-revised1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WgWIadPivMg/Tn1UosAmk1I/AAAAAAAAB9U/cOfJW2gzl7k/s1600/batsncats.jpg

Excellent stuff.

 

[JoeZhang]

This one is even better - scroll down about half way down the page:

http://monkeyscandance.tumblr.com/post/10609662874/starfires-transparent-bikini-is-based-off-this

 

[Professor Zoom]

So, to some degree DC's just acknowledging that it's time to stop pretending that the success of these sorts of stories is or should be considered as outliers or exceptions. While there may be something unavoidably naive at the core of superhero narratives, the industry is not going to be made or broken by the devotion of nine year-old boys, but by intriguing - and yeah, sometimes titillating - a core audience that has grown older and can be appealed to by material that's more sophisticated in presentation and subject matter if not actually more mature in content.

agreed.

The problem with that theory is that it doesn't bring in new readers and hasn't brought in new readers. All it does is titillate a core audience that shrinks every year and, eventually, will be dead.

Who are these "new readers" you speak of? You mean grown ups with cash? The ones who might be more interested in complex storylines and characterizations?

Or teenagers, who don't really read comics anymore, and would rather spend their money on video games that provide hours of entertainment?

Yeah. It's grown ups with cash.

Now, I agree with you, that ultimately, it's a shrinking audience, and new readers will slow the bleeding, maybe flatten the curve... but kids aren't really jumping into comics. Certainly not with the new DCU.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Who are these "new readers" you speak of? You mean grown ups with cash? The ones who might be more interested in complex storylines and characterizations?

And also random tits. Call it sad, but true.

You know, doubtless there are creative folks who work in the comics medium who can handle adult subject matter - in every sense, both complex storylines as well as your basic sex and violence - with some skill and experience. I'm not sure that these folks have been making superhero comics for DC in the past or that they're among the writers and artists doing so now. Maybe the editors will need to look a bit further afield.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Who are these "new readers" you speak of? You mean grown ups with cash? The ones who might be more interested in complex storylines and characterizations?

And also random tits. Call it sad, but true.

You know, doubtless there are creative folks who work in the comics medium who can handle adult subject matter - in every sense, both complex storylines as well as your basic sex and violence - with some skill and experience. I'm not sure that these folks have been making superhero comics for DC in the past or that they're among the writers and artists doing so now. Maybe the editors will need to look a bit further afield.

I think that would be an excellent idea. I don't have a problem with sex in my comics, it's when it's handled like a 17 year old is writing it--Kori in Red Hood, Catwoman, etc.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Give me some good examples of sex in superhero comics "written like an adult is writing it" that is really successfully appealing as a marketing tool.

Whoever coined "sex sells" was not talking about empowerment.

Probably the best that the writers can do in this medium right now is to do the least - support the scenario, where sex and violence are concerned, with as few words as possible, most of them suggestions to the artist - and let the artist do the heavy lifting.

In fact, the two instances causing all the fuss last week pretty much exemplify the two different ways this can fail - the Starfire thing is mostly clumsy, poorly-considered dialogue whereas the Catwoman story, despite reasonable mockery directed at one or two lines of her first-person narration, seems to be mainly being laughed at for the art.

I'm just willing to bet that the artists are more likely to be able improve than the writers.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Give me some good examples of sex in superhero comics "written like an adult is writing it" that is really successfully appealing as a marketing tool.

The Grell Green Arrow? The sex scene in the Owl Ship in Watchmen was more satire than anything else.

I'm thinking more of like thrillers or paperbacks from the 50s, like Spillane (yeah, NOT empowerment.)

Whoever coined "sex sells" was not talking about empowerment.

True. But that doesn't mean it can't be. However, I don't think sex equals empowerment. Power equals empowerment. Just because you choose who you have sex with, doesn't make you any more or less empowered.

Amanda Waller I think was one of the most empowered characters in the DCU... but I don't know if I want to see a sex scene with her in it. (Well, the old Amanda...)

Probably the best that the writers can do in this medium right now is to do the least - support the scenario, where sex and violence are concerned, with as few words as possible, most of them suggestions to the artist - and let the artist do the heavy lifting.

Yeah. I can see that.