DC's "Naomi" coming to CW from Ava Duvernay

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by M'rk son of Mogh, Dec 4, 2020.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I disagree.

    I don't think that automatically assuming Arrowverse connectivity based solely on this show being developed to air on The CW is warranted.
     
  2. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We know it is in the Arrowverse because we saw it on screen. Canonically it is part of the Arrowverse, crossovers or not.
     
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  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you're talking about Stargirl, you're wrong.

    Existing within the Arrowverse's internal Multiverse doesn't make a property part of the Arrowverse itself.
     
  4. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Then your definition of "Arrowverse" is different than the generally accepted one.
     
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  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No.

    The Arrowverse officially consists of the following series and only the following series (in order of production by year):
    * CBS' The Flash (1990; retroactively grafted into continuity by the appearances of Amanda Pays as Tina McGee, Vito D'Ambrosio as Tony Bellows, Alex Desert as Julio Mendez, Mark Hamill as James Jesse/The Trickster, Corrine Broher as Zoey Clark/Prank, and John Wesley Shipp as Barry Allen/The Flash in the 2014 Flash series)
    * Arrow (2012)
    * The Flash (2014)
    * NBC's Constantine (2014; retroactively grafted into continuity with Matt Ryan's appearances as John Constantine in Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow)
    * Vixen (2015)
    * Supergirl (2015; originally created for and aired on CBS)
    * Legends of Tomorrow (2016)
    * Freedom Fighters: The Ray (2017)
    * Black Lightning (2018; retroactively grafted into continuity through tie-in episodes and Cress Williams' appearance as Jefferson Pierce/Black Lightning in the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" crossover event)
    * Batwoman (2019)
    * Superman and Lois (2021)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think the term "Arrowverse" is only useful if we use it for shows that are connected to the overall narrative continuity on an ongoing basis, rather than just having a single Crisis cameo. After all, Crisis implicitly established that all live-action DC is part of the multiverse, so that definition is too all-inclusive to be useful. A label is only meaningful if it differentiates one group of things from another. Including everything under the label would make the label redunant.

    So, for instance, The Flash (1990) is part of the Arrowverse because they brought back Barry-90 twice and made him integral to two consecutive crossovers. But I disagree with the Arrowverse Wiki's inclusion of Birds of Prey as a core Arrowverse show, because it only got a brief cameo in Crisis and has no narrative connection to the main continuity. I'd also exclude the DCEU, despite the Flash crossover scene, because it's already an established shared continuity with a distinct name of its own, and the crossover was not narratively connected to anything else in the Arrowverse (because it was filmed as an afterthought and grafted in).

    As for Stargirl, then, it's not part of the Arrowverse yet because it's only had a brief cameo in a montage at the end of Crisis. But they're already talking about doing a proper crossover, and if they do it once, they'll surely do it more than once. So at that point, it will be part of the Arrowverse.
     
  7. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'd say any DC series specifically developed for The CW will most likely be part of the Arrowverse. Now that Stargirl is purely a CW show, I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'll get a more explicit Arrowverse crossover fairly soon.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think I've heard they're already planning on one.
     
  9. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Cool.
     
  10. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't see Berlanti's name in the article. Whether or not he's involved with this might be the deciding factor on whether or not this will be set in the Arrowverse. Maybe even more so than that it's on The CW. The Flash crossed over to Supergirl while that show was still on CBS. IZombie, also a DC show on The CW, never crossed over with the Arrowverse shows.

    But even then, it might take a while before they make a decision. Black Lightning didn't cross over with the other Arrowverse shows until the third season, after all.
     
  11. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good point. I think the default assumption at this point is that Berlanti is involved in every TV show (especially DC ones), but that's still not quite the case.
     
  12. N-121973

    N-121973 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    re: inclusion with the Arrowverse: I think they'll go with the option that gets them the most viewers.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I have a hard time believing it won't be from Berlanti. He practically is The CW at this point. He's their go-to guy for comics adaptations.


    Perhaps because it was more a horror comedy than a superhero show. Or because it was a Vertigo title, but that didn't stop them from crossing over with Constantine and Lucifer.

    Still, apparently Naomi's origin in the comics is tied to Superman, so it's hard to believe that nobody involved would be thinking about a crossover with Superman and Lois.
     
  14. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    I've read her mini-series, and I've got to say this might have been over-emphasized. Superman isn't that integral to her origin.
     
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's not, though.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I'm not thinking about comics continuity, I'm thinking about crossover appeal -- or rather, I consider it likely that the producers and the network would be thinking about it. Naomi is a new, not very well-known character, so a crossover with Superman would help promote the show. Even a tenuous link in the source material is enough to justify an adaptation taking advantage of the connection. Adaptations often play things up beyond their importance in the source (for instance, Professor Moriarty showing up far more frequently in Sherlock Holmes adaptations than he actually did in the Doyle canon).
     
  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Superman could be involved with the series in some fashion without it being part of the Arrowverse.
     
  18. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Superman isn’t central to the events of Naomi’s origin proper, but he basically launches her on the path to discovering it, then plays host to her first guest shot outside her own book. (Naomi is said to have a “Superman complex,” and her origin, once revealed, deliberately parallels Clark’s in some respects.) Bendis was definitely emphasizing a connection, and playing to the idea that Superman is the pinnacle of the DCU, and an inspiration/mentor/guide to other heroes (and rightly so).
     
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  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Anyway, I just found out that Naomi's surname is McDuffie. That's lovely -- a nice tribute to the late Dwayne McDuffie and all he did for comics.
     
  20. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So this definitely has no connection to the DCEU then! Ha!
    (Cue the angry responses of "those that can't take a joke" in 3... 2... 1...)
     
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