DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[The Realist]

For those not prone to extremes, absolutes, or agenda-pushing (which definitely disqualifies "some" in this thread), the reality is that CW's DC shows have been neither all good nor all bad. Most started out very good, but saw diminishing returns over the course of their runs -- which in my experience is true of many, if not most, TV series.

 

[fireproof78]

For those not prone to extremes, absolutes, or agenda-pushing (which definitely disqualifies "some" in this thread), the reality is that CW's DC shows have been neither all good nor all bad. Most started out very good, but saw diminishing returns over the course of their runs -- which in my experience is true of many, if not most, TV series.

I have yet to run in to a series that did not feel like it slowly lost it's edge over time. Even series that I thoroughly enjoy I can feel that languish.

 

[crookeddy]

For those not prone to extremes, absolutes, or agenda-pushing (which definitely disqualifies "some" in this thread), the reality is that CW's DC shows have been neither all good nor all bad. Most started out very good, but saw diminishing returns over the course of their runs -- which in my experience is true of many, if not most, TV series.

The best shows seem to have pre-planned arcs and end when they're supposed to end. Imagine if TWD ended at the peak of its popularity - it would have been remembered as one of the most influential shows of all time... Now, no CW show reached TWD levels but still... Arrow started pretty intense, Flash was a lot of fun. Legends actually got better later, but you get my point.

 

[crookeddy]

I have yet to run in to a series that did not feel like it slowly lost it's edge over time. Even series that I thoroughly enjoy I can feel that languish.

TNG seemed to keep getting better... then a bad s7, but a spectacular finale.

 

[Saul]

There's not much point to fandome until they get their act together. How many years in a row can they say 'The Flash' coming soon, 'Aquaman' coming soon etc. They said all that in 2020.

 

[cooleddie74]

TNG seemed to keep getting better... then a bad s7, but a spectacular finale.

Yeah, Season 7 is my next-to-least favorite year of TNG. It was either fun or excellent or just mediocre and there weren't many episodes that fell in the middle.

 

[crookeddy]

Yeah, Season 7 is my next-to-least favorite year of TNG. It was either fun or excellent or just mediocre and there weren't many episodes that fell in the middle.

Even more off topic, but people like to say that GOT or WD are the most popular genre shows of all time... but the TNG finale was watched by 31 million people. On Syndicated networks. 13th most watched series finale OF ALL TIME. WD topped out at 17 million. GOT at 13.61.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, Season 7 was a jumbled mess of writing but it ended on one of the highest notes any Trek ever has.

 

[Samurai8472]

So Comic-Con was lackluster. Fandome is canceled. Batgirl is canceled. We're in the golden age of WB/DC alright.

 

[JD]

You say that, but to many, the DC/CW shows are considered low-rent garbage (hence the reference in the Gonzales account), not at all the best representation of DC's properties. That--of course--is a subjective opinion, but I would bet next to no one wanted to hear their big budget film--one intended to be the linchpin for a new generation of adventures in that alternate world--was compared to the DC/CW's often derided brand of adaptations.

So you're saying then that in entire history of movies, no studio has ever released a movie that people would consider worse than The Flash or Arrow pilots?
And that there is no way absolutely no possible a movie some people have compared to a CW show could be successful?
Looking at some of the shit that has been released and that has managed to make money, I find that a little hard to believe.
All I'm saying is that not releasing the movie because some people said it was like a CW show, seems like an epic scale over reaction when you look at stuff that has been released, and been successful over the entire history of cinema.
I'm not saying this was going to be some amazing movie that would bring in $2,000,000,000, but based on what has been said about it, I find it hard to believe that it was such an absolutely disastrous shit show that they had no choice but to hide it.
To me for a movie to have to be hidden away like they're doing with this, it would literally have to be one of the absolute worst things ever in the entire history of cinema, and it doesn't sound like this was that bad.

 

[Christopher]

And that there is no way absolutely no possible a movie some people have compared to a CW show could be successful?

Hell, The CW's DC shows have mostly been better than the DC movies in recent years. I'd say the Arrowverse is the closest thing DC has to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, much more so than the inconsistent, troubled feature film series. The MCU and the Arrowverse are the two screen franchises that most successfully capture the feel and storytelling style of large, interconnected comic book universes.

Although television is usually better than movies these days, because TV has more room to develop characters and ideas, and because TV is a writers' medium while movies are a directors' medium where writing is often undervalued, leading to weak or incoherent storytelling. The only real advantages movies have anymore are budget and production time -- though I've always felt that too high a budget works against quality because it's easy to let self-indulgence and spectacle take precedence over storytelling basics and filmmaking discipline.

Indeed, if anything, it seems that the DC movies have been trying to emulate the success of the Arrowverse. They're following the lead of The CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths by using the multiverse as a device for bringing back earlier cinematic casts (something Marvel/Sony also did with Spider-Man: No Way Home), and they even asked the Arrowverse producers to include Ezra Miller in CoIE as a teaser for the Flash movie.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Hell, The CW's DC shows have mostly been better than the DC movies in recent years. I'd say the Arrowverse is the closest thing DC has to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, much more so than the inconsistent, troubled feature film series. The MCU and the Arrowverse are the two screen franchises that most successfully capture the feel and storytelling style of large, interconnected comic book universes.

Although television is usually better than movies these days, because TV has more room to develop characters and ideas, and because TV is a writers' medium while movies are a directors' medium where writing is often undervalued, leading to weak or incoherent storytelling. The only real advantages movies have anymore are budget and production time -- though I've always felt that too high a budget works against quality because it's easy to let self-indulgence and spectacle take precedence over storytelling basics and filmmaking discipline.

Indeed, if anything, it seems that the DC movies have been trying to emulate the success of the Arrowverse. They're following the lead of The CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths by using the multiverse as a device for bringing back earlier cinematic casts (something Marvel/Sony also did with Spider-Man: No Way Home), and they even asked the Arrowverse producers to include Ezra Miller in CoIE as a teaser for the Flash movie.

That's a fine argument if you think realizing a comic book style universe is the only legitimate goal of a superhero universe, but it's not an argument about the *quality* of the movies.

Don't get me wrong, I love the MCU shared universe and I wish the CW verse did give us something comparable for DC but the CW shows are largely unwatchable. Just as much, if not moreso, as BvS. Certainly far, far worse than the Suicide Squad movies, the Wonder Woman movies, Shazam or even Aquaman (and I am no fan of Aquaman). The only movie we've gotten that is worse quality than the CW is Justice League.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

That's a fine argument if you think realizing a comic book style universe is the only legitimate goal of a superhero universe, but it's not an argument about the *quality* of the movies.

Don't get me wrong, I love the MCU shared universe and I wish the CW verse did give us something comparable for DC but the CW shows are largely unwatchable. Just as much, if not moreso, as BvS. Certainly far, far worse than the Suicide Squad movies, the Wonder Woman movies, Shazam or even Aquaman (and I am no fan of Aquaman). The only movie we've gotten that is worse quality than the CW is Justice League.

I'd put Black Lightning against every single one of those, easily. Writing is certainly better than almost all of those movies.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I'd put Black Lightning against every single one of those, easily. Writing is certainly better than almost all of those movies.

I'll grant you that I gave up on the CWverse after a certain point because every single show had the same bad writing, so Black Lightning is one I haven't seen. Well I saw the pilot on Netflix once and it was decent enough, but I still never watched beyond that because every CW show seemed decent enough in the pilot (as far as tv pilots go, anyway) and still turned out to be horribly written from one episode to the next and then even got worse with each new season. So it's hard to even think about giving any of the newer ones a chance.

 

[The Realist]

I'd put Black Lightning against every single one of those, easily. Writing is certainly better than almost all of those movies.

Black Lightning was indeed great (though its final season did show a small decline in quality it had avoided for the preceding three years). I thought the first seasons of Arrow, The Flash, and Superman & Lois were all excellent, as was the fourth season of Supergirl. The first season of Batwoman was solid as well. Other seasons and shows I've watched ranged from decent to truly horrible.

I won't comment on the series and seasons I haven't watched because then, y'know, I'd just be talking out of my ass.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The full quote about the movie is "It’s not really a strong film, the tone is just very CW, lacking in depth, lighter and more comic book-like". Oh no, more comic book-like? I assume even though they mention it being like a "CW pilot" they mean more like a later "CW series" once it's settled in. I wonder how much of this is a tonal thing and is a bit subjective. "Lacking in depth" is more damning but with no context there isn't much to chew on.

Is it just the directors to blame? I mean Christina Hodson wrote both Batgirl and the upcoming Flash which supposedly is blowing the roof off of its test screenings.

I was curious what my reaction was to the initial promo picture but didn't see any. Did find this though.

Looks like something from the CW. That shine ain't helping either. This ain't the 60's.

 

[The Realist]

I liked the movie's Batgirl suit a lot.

 

[Christopher]

The full quote about the movie is "It’s not really a strong film, the tone is just very CW, lacking in depth, lighter and more comic book-like".

That's bizarre. Some CW shows have a lot of depth, though some are lighter. And as I said, I think feature films rarely approach the depth of television, since they don't have room to do so and are often too busy spending gajillions on CGI spectacle rather than character or ideas.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Sometimes the CW shows are a little cavalier in how they treat things. How Alice is treated in Batwoman, or The Flash letting off terrible people, how Stargirl handles having deadly villains in their midst, how a nuclear explosion doesn't amount to much in Arrow, etc.

 

[Christopher]

Sometimes the CW shows are a little cavalier in how they treat things. How Alice is treated in Batwoman, or The Flash letting off terrible people, how Stargirl handles having deadly villains in their midst, how a nuclear explosion doesn't amount to much in Arrow, etc.

Yes, the Arrowverse shows have a lot of imperfections. But hell, so did the original comics! I mean, come on, have you read Golden or Silver Age comics? They were routinely dumb and ridiculous and cheesy and nonsensical. A lot of modern comics are too. But they were fun, and they had enough positive attributes to have a lasting impact and be loved by many people. The Arrowverse captures that magnificently, both the richness and the silliness of DC's history, and most of all that sense of fun. The DCEU movies have only occasionally managed that.

We don't love things -- or people -- because they're absolutely perfect. I mean, if you really look at the most beloved TV series or comics or book series on a granular basis, you'll probably find that the majority of their content is mediocre and much of it is poor. But it's their moments of greatness, the parts that rise above the average, that we remember them for.