DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[Christopher]

They're not gonna waste a movie just to "delete" other movies.

To be fair, isn't that kind of what X-Men: Days of Future Past did? Not to mention all the other sequels that have retconned earlier movies out of existence simply by ignoring them, like Highlander III, Superman Returns, and some of the Halloween and Friday the 13th sequels.

Although the DCEU's approach to dealing with problematical prior movies is just to sort of pretend they were different all along -- like how Justice League pretends that Superman was a beloved hero to all before his death, ignoring BvS's emphasis on the public's fear and distrust of him. Which is fine with me, since that's the way it should have been.

 

[Kirk Prime]

We had two of them that didn't suck and I would like a third one. And I don't mean one in which Henry Cavill's Superman is some lame remake of Chris Reeve's Superman.

Well, while that's your opinion and you are absolutely entitled to it, I don't believe the majority of people feel the same way about how Snyder treated Superman. In fact, that's the big reason Snyder got fired, and that I believe these movies are so unpopular. Superman is not some dark, brooding, angry, scowling, reluctant hero. I hope we get a third movie too, but a good one.

There are people that like Jar Jar Binks too. They have that right, but objectively, DC movies are a mess, and a restart is exactly what they need.

They're not gonna waste a movie just to "delete" other movies.

As others have pointed out, X Men Days of Future Past did just that, and very well. DC has a history in the comics of doing that as well. Done right, that's a brilliant by itself. It would be exciting.

To be fair, isn't that kind of what X-Men: Days of Future Past did? Not to mention all the other sequels that have retconned earlier movies out of existence simply by ignoring them, like Highlander III, Superman Returns, and some of the Halloween and Friday the 13th sequels.

Although the DCEU's approach to dealing with problematical prior movies is just to sort of pretend they were different all along -- like how Justice League pretends that Superman was a beloved hero to all before his death, ignoring BvS's emphasis on the public's fear and distrust of him. Which is fine with me, since that's the way it should have been.

The best part is, it's not necessary to ignore and pretend. There's a story there.

 

[Kane_Steel]

The best thing they could do with Superman at this point is Reboot.

The Snyder/Cavill version has failed to resonate with audiences. MOS failed to meet critical and financial expectations and was divisive among audiences.

BVS was a complete joke that derailed the DCEU, but led to some funny Martha memes. Superman died, and nobody cared. Groot dying in GOTG even had more of an emotional reaction from audiences.

JL was moustache-gate and a cartoony version of Superman that no one cared about at this point. And JL bombed in theatres, losing WB 50-100 Mil.

Let Reeves reboot Batman in a separate universe. Eventually introduce a rebooted version of Superman in that verse, with a director who actually gets the material. After WW completes her trilogy, she can be the one crossover character into this new DC universe and they can hopefully try a JL film again.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Days of Future Past is a classic x-men story. It didn't get greenlit just to change the continuity.

It also didn't change the continuity nearly as much as people claim. DoFP doesn't erase First Class or Wolverine Origins (easily the worst movie in the franchise which everyone most wanted to forget). And subsequent movies made it abundantly clear that at least some events from the original trilogy still happened in some way, as well.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Meh, I'd rather see them focus on Superman, and leave Supergirl to the Arrwowverse.

Then don't see it, if and when it comes out?

Apparently, there's some rule I'm not aware of that we can't have both Superman and Supergirl movies?

Yeah....

I think it is the law of supply and demand....

NOw we are beginning to see the market oversaturated

What you're forgetting is that if a Supergirl movie is greenlit, then the people who make a living out of analyzing the market will have come to the informed opinion that there is sufficient demand to justify supplying the film.

Myself, I'm interested. Wonder Woman was definitely worth my time. BvS decidedly less so. JL was better than BvS, but not by leaps and bounds.

 

[Christopher]

Days of Future Past is a classic x-men story.

Yes, obviously, but the movie was not a direct adaptation of the comic; it borrowed elements of the comic to serve the needs of the movie series (in the same way that MCU movies like Civil War and Infinity War borrowed titles and broad elements from certain comics stories to tell their own separate versions of the ideas). After all, the comics storyline involved a time traveler from the future coming to the present in order to invent an apocalyptic future, but the movie made a point of having the time traveler go decades into the past, specifically so that they could reboot the continuity and undo the mistakes of earlier films. That was made obvious by the ending of the DOFP movie, establishing that Scott, Jean, and Xavier were all alive again in the present, thereby explicitly and pointedly undoing the events of The Last Stand. And the movie they're currently making is Dark Phoenix, which is overtly a second attempt to get that story right after The Last Stand botched it.

DoFP doesn't erase First Class

Nobody ever said it did, because nobody thinks that 1973 came before 1962.

or Wolverine Origins

Actually it does overwrite much of that film, since the timeline change occurs in 1973 and the bulk of XMOW takes place in 1979. And of course XMOW's portrayals of Emma Frost and Deadpool have both been rejected and replaced by later films' portrayals, and XMOW's portrayal of Xavier bald and walking in 1979 is contradicted by both DOFP and Apocalypse.

And subsequent movies made it abundantly clear that at least some events from the original trilogy still happened in some way, as well.

Yes, of course some things did, but other things didn't. The filmmakers did it so they could fix past mistakes, like getting a second shot at Dark Phoenix. So naturally they kept the parts that weren't mistakes.

 

[Ovation]

Honestly, it wouldn't matter, and it wouldn't even have to be a movie adaptation of a comic book Crisis story. That would be very hard, and likely tough on the viewer.

But all Crisis stories have some similarities.

Picture this--the Justice League is doing its thing, and suddenly finds themselves confronted by a bad guy bent on destroying the world, not just to rule, but to reshape in his own image. Think Zero Hour.

Given that Hal Jordan is not even in the DCEU yet, I would NOT make the villain Hal Jordan. He would be a villain we haven't seen. Time travel would be important to this crisis, but I want someone even more powerful than that. He can rewrite the whole universe in his own image.

The reason I want this villain to have this kind of power is because of the end game, which is of course he is stopped by the Justice League, in such a way that the entire DCEU is reset.

Good will win, but it's not a slam dunk 100 percent victory. The end result would be the DC universe that is more in tune with what made these characters popular in the first place. I don't want just time travel involved because I don't want the reshaping of the DC Universe to be limited to just Earth. I want Krypton affected. I want the Guardians affected.

History will be changed and continuity will be thrown out the window. The next time we see our characters, they will be part of this new continuity, be it in their own movie or in a Justice League one.

It's not the only way to reset the DCEU--but I really think it needs to be done, and one strength of the DC universe is that there is so much precedent.

Hell, you could simply do a story where we establish the multiverse. The Earth we have been following can be called Earth 23. The heroes from Earth 1 come to Earth 23 for help. The heroes of Earth 1, all have counterparts to Earth 23. Some of them are played by different actors, assuming you want to recast (cough::newyoungerBatman::cough). They have their adventure and win the day. Hell, you can even kill off some characters. It won't matter because the Earth 1 heroes are the ones we will follow from here on out.

Yuck. I want NONE of this. More Cavill Superman is what I want—in the current continuity.

 

[theenglish]

Days of Future Past is a classic x-men story. It didn't get greenlit just to change the continuity.

It also didn't change the continuity nearly as much as people claim. DoFP doesn't erase First Class or Wolverine Origins (easily the worst movie in the franchise which everyone most wanted to forget). And subsequent movies made it abundantly clear that at least some events from the original trilogy still happened in some way, as well.

The X-Men films are, at best, loosely connected anyway. The first three films fit together and then the sixties/seventies films fit together but all the others seem to pick and choose elements from other films as they wish.

 

[DigificWriter]

To be fair, isn't that kind of what X-Men: Days of Future Past did?

No.I

DoFP doesn't erase First Class or Wolverine Origins

DoFP doesn't erase any of the films that preceded it in terms of release.

 

[Kirk Prime]

The best thing they could do with Superman at this point is Reboot.

The Snyder/Cavill version has failed to resonate with audiences. MOS failed to meet critical and financial expectations and was divisive among audiences.

BVS was a complete joke that derailed the DCEU, but led to some funny Martha memes. Superman died, and nobody cared. Groot dying in GOTG even had more of an emotional reaction from audiences.

JL was moustache-gate and a cartoony version of Superman that no one cared about at this point. And JL bombed in theatres, losing WB 50-100 Mil.

Let Reeves reboot Batman in a separate universe. Eventually introduce a rebooted version of Superman in that verse, with a director who actually gets the material. After WW completes her trilogy, she can be the one crossover character into this new DC universe and they can hopefully try a JL film again.

I still am not convinced it was Cavill's fault, but I would be ok with recasting if the story is right. But if Cavill got a good script that actually showed Superman, rather than some guy with similar powers and a knock off suit, it might work. Snyder is the one that butchered Superman. Thing is, as great as Batman is, there have been too many Batman movies. I think that Superman needs to take center stage. He should be at minimum, the Captain America of the DC Universe, who is the moral centerpiece with no ambiguities. They can't write in those ambiguities either. Superman killing Zod was one of the dumbest decisions they made.
As you said, divisive.

I still think cleaning up the mess is the way to go, and that can be done in universe. Superman can be the Superman that is in character, right down to the red shorts, but tell a story that makes it happen.

It also didn't change the continuity nearly as much as people claim. DoFP doesn't erase First Class or Wolverine Origins (easily the worst movie in the franchise which everyone most wanted to forget). And subsequent movies made it abundantly clear that at least some events from the original trilogy still happened in some way, as well.

Deadpool 2, kind of took care of Wolverine Origins.

Yuck. I want NONE of this. More Cavill Superman is what I want—in the current continuity.

If that were the majority point of view, then there would have been a third movie greenlit a long time ago. Even the most ardent Snyder supporter has to admit his vision didn't resonate with audiences. Or at least, not enough of people.

Cavill hasn't played Superman yet. He showed flashes in Justice League, but he just hasn't done right by the character yet.

 

[Professor Zoom]

DoFP doesn't erase any of the films that preceded it in terms of release.

It certainly changes the ending of X3. Or does the end of Days Of Future past take place before X3? (Is there anything that contradicts that possibility?)

Cavill hasn't played Superman yet. He showed flashes in Justice League, but he just hasn't done right by the character yet.

He hasn’t had the opportunity, as you said.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ DoFP creates an alternate timeline, but it doesn't "erase" the original timeline or the events that happened therein.

The notion that it does is a fallacy perpetuated by those who didn't like films like The Last Stand and Origins:Wolverine.

 

[Kane_Steel]

I still am not convinced it was Cavill's fault, but I would be ok with recasting if the story is right. But if Cavill got a good script that actually showed Superman, rather than some guy with similar powers and a knock off suit, it might work. Snyder is the one that butchered Superman.

I feel like WB/DC has been in this predicament before. 12 years ago.

It wasn't Brandon's fault either, but he was definitely the casualty of the studio and director's incompetence.

 

[Ovation]

Even the most ardent Snyder supporter has to admit his vision didn't resonate with audiences. Or at least, not enough of people.

I can admit that--but popular support doesn't equal being correct about something (and yes, I know all about the subjective nature of art, etc. yadda, yadda, yadda).

Cavill hasn't played Superman yet. He showed flashes in Justice League, but he just hasn't done right by the character yet.

On this, I vehemently disagree. That he didn't play a version that responded to popular expectations is NOT the same as saying he hasn't "done right by the character". But I'm no mood to recount the dozens of ways Cavill's portrayal is a fully realized, albeit different from the classic, take on the character. Been there, bought the t-shirt.

 

[crookeddy]

I feel like WB/DC has been in this predicament before. 12 years ago.

It wasn't Brandon's fault either, but he was definitely the casualty of the studio and director's incompetence.

I have to say... this costume look riiiii-diculous.

 

[Kirk Prime]

DoFP creates an alternate timeline, but it doesn't "erase" the original timeline or the events that happened therein.

The notion that it does is a fallacy perpetuated by those who didn't like films like The Last Stand and Origins:Wolverine.

I look at it like a hot wheel loop. At least from the point of view of Wolverine. He's always going forward, even as his path loops backward and he experiences things again, altering them. So yes, even though the original timeline is overwritten, everything still happened.

On this, I vehemently disagree. That he didn't play a version that responded to popular expectations is NOT the same as saying he hasn't "done right by the character". But I'm no mood to recount the dozens of ways Cavill's portrayal is a fully realized, albeit different from the classic, take on the character. Been there, bought the t-shirt.

That's all well and good for you, but Superman is an optimistic, colorful, straight forward hero. He is not some brooding, dark, unlikable, uninspiring, reluctant hero, hated by the world. That's was a moronic creative decision, and they paid the price.

As for Routh, that movie at least had the heart, but not the writers. It meant well, but again, they made Superman into some wimp who stalks Lois and was a deadbeat dad.

That may have tried to be Reeve's Superman, but it just wasn't.

I can admit that--but popular support doesn't equal being correct about something (and yes, I know all about the subjective nature of art, etc. yadda, yadda, yadda).

If something is disliked as much as Snyder's Superman, for reasons like it didn't capture the spirit of the character, then popular support does mean correct. Snyder got it all wrong. He couldn't have screwed up Superman more if he consciously tried to make a bad movie.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^ DoFP creates an alternate timeline, but it doesn't "erase" the original timeline or the events that happened therein.

I don’t know if I agree with that. We don’t know how fictional time travel works in this marvel universe. It might branch, it might undo. Did Wolverine go to an alternate time line when he went into the past? Is he the only one that “escaped” from the Sentinel timeline?

But, it’s also semantics. Jean and Scott were alive. They undid the ending of X3. Maybe it’s a straight up change, maybe it’s an alternative timeline. The result for the audience is the same, at the very least many of the events of X3 were undone.

 

[dahj]

To all y'all still whinging about Man of Steel...

Carry on.

 

[Ovation]

To al y'all still whinging about Man of Steel...

Carry on.

Damn straight.

 

[DigificWriter]

Logan's actions in 1973 changed the timeline going forward from that point so that certain things that had occurred originally either didn't occur at all or occurred slightly differently. However, he retained his memories of what had transpired before and relayed this information to Xavier upon his return to 2023 in what was now a new timeline.

That doesn't mean that the events of the original X-Trilogy, Origins: Wolverine, and The Wolverine didn't happen; they just didn't happen in the timeline that Logan returned to after his trip to 1973.