DC Cinematic Universe ( The James Gunn era)

[Mudd]

 

[ichab]

I guess my biggest criticism of the Snyderverse is that, there's just no joy or wonder in it. It took itself so seriously, that I think it hurt those movies. That, and the incredibly dreary color pallet.

That's a fair criticism. I don't mind dark and dreary for Batman, but Superman should always represent hope. I do hope Hollywood has gotten the whole "washed out color look" OUT of their system because it has become WAY to common this past decade.

Going to most superhero movies, people are going because they want to have a good time.

Everyone has their own idea of a "good time." For me, I prefer substance that might be too serious over no substance because everything that should be serious is lost because of a cheap laugh.

 

[Set Harth]

I guess my biggest criticism of the Snyderverse is that, there's just no joy or wonder in it.

You seem to think insane hyperbole is a compelling argument.

 

[BillJ]

You seem to think insane hyperbole is a compelling argument.

If you think differently, tell us where the joy and wonder were at?

 

[Set Harth]

Likely made millions off of Warner Brothers, and they got little return on their investment.

In any other decade, a movie making nearly 900 million dollars would have been considered an astounding success, if not an act of divine intervention.

Just not the 2010s, the decade when sanity was taken out behind the barn and put out of its misery.

 

[BillJ]

In any other decade, a movie making nearly 900 million dollars would have been considered an astounding success, if not an act of divine intervention

Unfortunately, when you spend $300 million to make it, probably another $200 million promoting it, then have to give theater chains a fairly decent chunk of ticket sales, you end up not having a lot of ROI.

Snyder knew the game he signed up for.

 

[Mudd]

In any other decade, a movie making nearly 900 million dollars would have been considered an astounding success, if not an act of divine intervention.

Red herring.

"In any other decade," budgeting would have been based on an expected ROI, in turn based on comparables and the current marketplace as well as history, just as with MoS and BvS.

Yes, the numbers would have been different in 1985 than in 2013-2017. That's a given, a commonplace fact. So what?

In any other decade, Warners would have paid Snyder a whole fucking lot less and given him a much smaller budget to burn through. Ticket prices would have been lower, expected attendance at theaters would have been different, the expected value of merchandising and of foreign sales would have been different...the list goes on and on.

Snyder's got enough common sense to move on to his zombie movies and stop blathering about conspiracies against him. His fans would do well to follow suit. His movies were just not successful enough for the studio to keep throwing money at him carte blanche.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You seem to think insane hyperbole is a compelling argument.

Always in great supply where the objects of their hate is concerned.

In any other decade, a movie making nearly 900 million dollars would have been considered an astounding success, if not an act of divine intervention.

Just not the 2010s, the decade when sanity was taken out behind the barn and put out of its misery.

Depending on the director or DC franchise, 900 million is still considered a massive hit...unless the director did not worship at the altar of an idea and image that would seem silly even by the typically low standards of 1970s/ 80s Saturday morning cartoons. Sanity has been exchanged for an extremist level of hatred.

 

[BillJ]

Always in great supply where the objects of their hate is concerned.

What the fuck are you even talking about? I've went on record, in this thread, as someone that likes Man of Steel.

 

[Mudd]

I liked it okay, but it wasn't a first-rate movie and no one should have been surprised by its lackluster performance.

I liked Cavill in the part a great deal.

 

[BillJ]

I liked it okay, but it wasn't a first-rate movie and no one should have been surprised by its lackluster performance.

I liked Cavill in the part a great deal.

It entertained me. Which is all I'm looking for when going to a movie. Though it isn't one I have revisited much. I think I've seen it twice since its theatrical run.

Justice League, in any cut, is a brutal slog.

 

[Mudd]

It entertained me. Which is all I'm looking for when going to a movie. Though it isn't one I have revisited much. I think I've seen it twice since its theatrical run.

Justice League, in any cut, is a brutal slog.

I feel that way about BvS. I've seen it from start to finish once, and that's it. MoS, I saw once in the theater, once on cable, and I've picked it up already in progress on cable two or three times. I like the middle of it the most.

 

[Set Harth]

I've went on record, in this thread, as someone that likes Man of Steel.

How did you get past the complete absence of joy and wonder?

Superman should always represent hope.

If only MoS had actually made that point somehow. Dang!

 

[BillJ]

How did you get past the complete absence of joy and wonder?

Because it wasn’t a good start for what they were trying to do, doesn’t make it a bad movie. Just one that didn’t resonate with audiences.

 

[Mudd]

A lot of good films aren't popular movies.

A lot of great films aren't even commercial movies.

What you cannot sustain, as a practical matter, are enormously expensive movies that are not popular movies.

 

[The Realist]

On an infinitely more interesting topic (and one that's actually thread-relevant), Gunn recently did a very long and essential Q&A about Superman. Some great info and observations. I've clipped a few of my favorites below the link.

https://thescreenbrief.com/james-gunn-interview-superman-teaser-press-launch/

We’re dealing with Superman, this symbol of really old-fashioned values and hope, and it’s an idea that’s been a bit battered over the years. Both that sort of concept of Superman and the concept of just kindness in general. And I think that this is about letting that be what it is, and allowing those traditional values to, manifest themselves in a completely new way.

This is about a complex character, and I think that’s the thing that audiences are going to be completely surprised by. That you can’t really see in the trailer, is these complex relationships between Clark and Lois and Lex and Clark, and how they interact, and the different values they have and how they, you know, strengthen each other and make each other weaker.

And so, I think that it really is this battle of ideologies between [Superman and Lex] and how they look at the world. One of whom is very generous in his point of view, which is Superman, and one of them is not very generous in his point of view, which is Lex. But also, his intelligence and his way of dealing with the sort of henchmen that Lex has around him makes him incredibly dangerous to Superman.

And when you’re willing to fight, and there are no rules, you always have an upper hand over the person who’s willing to fight and has a lot of rules—which is Superman.

And I think from the very beginning, you start to see why [Lois] is as strong of a force as Superman, just in a different way. And why someone, as cool and as good looking and as powerful as Superman would be in love with her. he’s the one who’s lucky at the end of the day.

I particularly like that last quote, since it touches on ideas that are central to my investment in Superman stories, and specifically his relationship with Lois -- the fact that the most powerful being in the world loves this woman, and what that says about both her and him. To me, it's so much more rich and meaningful than, say, pairing him with a costumed superhuman female equivalent of himself, as some fans desire. I feel like those fans' understanding of Clark's essence is very different from my own.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

It’s gonna be a long seven months.

Let’s try to get along at least, everybody. We can all be excited about the new Superman movie. As we are all Superman fans. He means a lot to us and millions across the planet.

For myself, I’m cautiously optimistic that Gunn will be able to exert influence over his universe and we won’t see a repeat of how Cavilman was treated. Bad CGI, faceless cameos, years wasted on directionless movies and wasted talents of the actors.

Spoiler

Between the above and the “somehow Palpatine returned” line from Rise of Skywalker. How any executive could sign off on such a dumb idea or display for their billion dollar franchise is beyond me. At least the parties at WB, Walter Hamada and Ann Sarnoff are not at WB anymore. In a just world, they would be out on their asses. I know Hamada is now at Paramount. Where he will be working on future TMNT movies. Expect bad things from them in the future.

 

[Aragorn]

Henry Cavill is Pierce Brosnan. Beloved in subpar material.

 

[Mudd]

Well, Clark's a kid from Kansas. He probably finds people like Wonder Woman to be pretty...alien, in many respects.

"Clark has rules and Lex doesn't" does make for a more interesting conflict than, "Well, guess I just have give in and kill this guy," doesn't it?

 

[Christopher]

Henry Cavill is Pierce Brosnan. Beloved in subpar material.

I still want to see Brosnan and Aldis Hodge in a Justice Society movie.