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Day of the Vipers (Please mark Spoilers!)

I'm only seventy or so pages in (so I had to skim this thread), but I was amused to note that "kosst" was used as a Bajoran swear word, something I've done in my fan fiction since c. 2000 or so. :lol:

Wasn't Kosst also said to be a title somewhere too? I seem to remember Dukat using it.
 
I loved that bit in War of the Prophets where the insane Dukat wanders the darkened corridors of Empok Nor asking people "Can I get an Amojan out of you?" Just the right balance of creepy and cool.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
:guffaw:Thanks to that I now have an image of Dukat walking through a screaming crowd yelling that out.
 
I was amused to note that "kosst" was used as a Bajoran swear word

It just seemed like a logical linguistic progression to me; if the Kosst Amojan are seen by Bajorans as demonic, hellish creatures, then using their name as a curse word is like saying "What the devil?" or "Damn it!"
 
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I didn't really want to start another thread, so I thought just use this thread to inform everyone that an excerpt for Dawn of the Eagles is up on the S&S page. Hopefully this will stay up unlike the FS description.

Edit: A link would probably be helpfull.
 
Just finished the book. Enjoyed it thoroughly. I'm writing a couple of thoughts without having read a single post of the rest of the thread, so forgive me if I cover points already covered. I just wanted to get my thoughts down without having them confused with other people's thoughts.

Anyway, great book. I think it made a creative yet sensible choice to explain the slight wibble in whether the Occupation lasted for 50 or 60 years, and how the established fact that Cardassia first claimed to be a friend could be. I loved the character of Darrah, a really good grass-roots character to pin the reader on, as we see this low-level functionary react to all the planet-changing things going on around him.

I had a quibble with the use of the Oralians. I had been under the impression, and would have preferred to remain so, that the Oralian Way was lost aeons ago, along with the first Hebitian civilisation, and that religion of any sort was utterly foreign to the Cardassian mindset. So I was slightly troubled to see them play such a large part in societal events within the last century. I realise that these were basically the last gasp, and that mollifies me somewhat. And that indeed, the vast majority of Cardassian society is blind to faith. I also realise it was the correct way to explain the "friends" thing I mentioned earlier - using the Oralians is basically the best way to make a connection with the Bajorans quickly - and that mollifies me more. Still, it seemed slightly wurblish.

Also, while it was nice to see so many familiar "faces," I was a touch troubled to see so many familiar faces, if you know what I mean. All of these characters, like Dukat, Kell, Nechayev, Jaro, Proka, Keeve and so on, were presumably already adults with the experience and age to have reached their current positions. Let's say, all in their late 20s - early 30s, minimum. That means that 60 years later, during TNG and DS9 (where they all appeared in canon), those characters must have been in their late 80s - early 90s. And that just seems wrong to me.

Yes, we know that humans live longer than now, and that other races do too, but is still seems iffy. For example, Jaro Essa and Li Tarka (Li Nalas' father) are presented as contemporaries. Yet when the two meet in "The Circle," they look the same age. If anything, Li Nalas looks older (and yes, I know he had a hard life, but still). And Benjamin Sisko, presumably late 30s - early 40s in "Emissary," is the nemesis of a man twice his age?

I also had intended to rant on the phenomenon of the in media res opening, which seems to be a popular fashion these days. A scene to begin the book which actually takes place in the middle or towards the end of the story, to make the reader think, "Ooh, what could possibly happen to make things get to such a bad state?" It happened in Sword of Damocles and Unjoined to name two that immediately come to mind, and in neither did I feel it was necessary or useful. I thought the same of this one. It's a prequel; we don't need to be shown the tragedy that is to come so that a pall will fall over supposedly happy scenes. We already know - we watched the show.

But then, about half way through the book, I began to figure out the real purpose of that scene, which is to mislead the reader. Something completely different is happening in that scene from what it first appears. So I'll let you off in this case. Although as I say, I had it figured out far in advance of the actual reveal.

Anyway, I shall now go and read the rest of the thread. Thanks! Looking forward to the rest.

ETA: The comparison to The Art of the Impossible is apt. This book has the same kind of "This is galactic history happening right here, folks" feel to it.
 
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And Benjamin Sisko, presumably late 30s - early 40s in "Emissary," is the nemesis of a man twice his gae?
I missed the memo where one can only have a nemesis who is one's contemporary. :lol:

Also: "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night" established that Dukat was made prefect of Terok Nor when it was built in 2346. I'm not sure how old he is in Day of the Vipers, as I haven't gotten to it yet, but for him to be in that position, it makes sense for him to be an adult eighteen years earlier.
 
Re: the age thing.

This is something that Marco Palmieri and I talked about at length during the writing of Day of the Vipers, and here's how my thinking goes with it.

First, there's no established background for the aging of Cardassians and Bajorans beyond what we can intuit from the television series.
With regard to the Cardassians, given the times we've seen them in flashback and 'present day' during episodes, they don't look a lot different. Look at Dukat in "Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night" - we see him nearly three decades earlier, and he's pretty much the same guy. This, and my reading of cultural cues (things like the veneration of the elderly, the whole strong family ethos, etc.) led me to think that the Cardassians are both long-lived and that they age slowly.
As for the Bajorans, I took the character of Els Renora (from "Dax") as my benchmark - I don't have my notes in front of me, but I believe Anne Haney who played that role was in her mid/late sixties at the time, and Els is described as being a hundred years old; that's at least thirty years of wiggle room between apparent and actual age right there. From this I took the idea that Bajorans physically age more slowly as they get past middle age.
 
I really enjoyed this book. I am in the middle of Night of the Wolves and we are starting to see familiar pieces fall into place for DS9 TV eps fans.

There are many aspects of this series that I enjoy so far - the development of Dukat, the fall of Bajor, the Bajoran political wrangling, the the Cardassian backstory and more. It truly adds more depth to my understanding of the DS9 world as I know it.

Oh...am I the only geek who ran to Memory Alpha to look up the various characters to cross reference and see if they were mentioned or shown 'in series' so I could get a better mental image of what they looked like?
 
^ I never ran to MA because the books did that job for me, but some of the characters I could remember from the show...some I need to go get a good look at. However, it was really sad (yet somehow funny) reading about Kira Meru...here I am thinking she's going to get the Teri Bauer fate, and she ends up getting something a lot worse than that... poor Leslie Hope never gets to play characters with happy endings. LOL.
 
Oh...am I the only geek who ran to Memory Alpha to look up the various characters to cross reference and see if they were mentioned or shown 'in series' so I could get a better mental image of what they looked like?

I should post the "cast list" I used for Day of the Vipers; it's a great shorthand technique for getting an early handle on a character...
 
Leslie Hope played Kira Meru? As for looking up the characters on MA, that was actually the first thing I did after I got home when I got the book, so I could get an idea of what they looked like. Then after I finish the book(or series, I haven't decided yet) I was going to go back so I can see what their final fates where.
 
Yes, Leslie Hope was Kira Meru. I realized it after reading one of my 24 magazines when they did an interview with Leslie Hope and saw her credits included Star Trek. I then saw which character she played, and to my surprise, saw she was, in fact, Kira Meru.
 
Beware the noob!

I'm now almost finished with reading and I liked the book so much, that I finally went and looked for a ST message board just to praise it.
What I particularly liked were the multi faceted characters (especially Darrah Mace, Dukat and Bennek). Great job there! I was at times a bit surprised by the sheer number of familiar faces and the age issue but the explanation given here mollifies me quite a bit.

Although not everything I had secretly hoped for came true. Seeing (or rather hearing) how much Bajoran was spoken in DS9 (in prayers and the like) - not to mention all the Klingon that was thrown in - I'm still so curious how Cardassian would sound like, even if I could just read it. I mean more than just a few names of food or places, a complete sentence would have been nice. But oh well, can't have everything.

A question I had while looking at the character list: Is there a reason that of all the Oralians only Pasir (who in the end doesn't even belong in that category) has a given and a family name? And are their names the familiy names or the given name? If it's the former I would find it strange that
Bennek is addressed by his lover Tima (even the Bajoran who turns Oralian has only one name) by his family name, while Dukat is called Skrain by his father and even by Kotan Pa'dar early on.

PS: Please forgive any grievous errors. I'm not a native speaker.
 
I'm still so curious how Cardassian would sound like, even if I could just read it.

I don't remember *any* time when the Cardassian language was ever spoken or even written, on the actual show, except for once: when Odo was explaining how he got his name (odo'ital - it's a Cardassian word meaning, literally, "nothing"). Is there any other? :confused:
 
^ That's my point. Cardassian wasn't spoken in the show (apart from some names and the single word you quoted), while both Bajoran and Klingon were spoken several times. Given that the Cardassians have become quite an important species in DS9 I always wished a bit more of their language would show up somewhere.
 
I'm still so curious how Cardassian would sound like, even if I could just read it.

I don't remember *any* time when the Cardassian language was ever spoken or even written, on the actual show, except for once: when Odo was explaining how he got his name (odo'ital - it's a Cardassian word meaning, literally, "nothing"). Is there any other? :confused:
Odo'ital was a Cardassian word? I could have sworn it was Bajoran.:cardie:
 
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