I said up thread that I love these books.
Have also been very intrigued/impressed with his "Armageddon Reef" series.
Have also been very intrigued/impressed with his "Armageddon Reef" series.
David Webers Honor Harrington Series of Books
- Thread starter Lookingglassman
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I had a rough time with Armageddon Reef, but after rereading it I liked it more. Odd, but true.
I like political content and I agree it gives the combat context. However, Weber's approach to politics, WAY TOO WORDY and spends way too long in getting to the point.
I'm reading "War of Honor" and almost all the way through, there is one brief simulated battle, a couple skirmishes, lightly touched upon. You can tell there's some biggies coming, but I'm almost completely through a book that's almost 900 pages long, and up to this point, it's been the Havenites and Manticorans pointing fingers at each other and elements in their government being self serving dickheads.
Not bad, but not nearly as good as the earlier books.
I'm reading "War of Honor" and almost all the way through, there is one brief simulated battle, a couple skirmishes, lightly touched upon. You can tell there's some biggies coming, but I'm almost completely through a book that's almost 900 pages long, and up to this point, it's been the Havenites and Manticorans pointing fingers at each other and elements in their government being self serving dickheads.
Not bad, but not nearly as good as the earlier books.
^Jim Butcher (Of "The Dresden Files" fame) was quoted in an interview as saying that his favorite book when asked, was Honor of the Queen by David Weber.
! Exactly. I t was much more fun when she was an underdog trying to just make her way in the service.Yes, but to the extent that she was an "underdog" it was only because some of her superiors were knaves and idiots.
Yes, but to the extent that she was an "underdog" it was only because some of her superiors were knaves and idiots.
Exactly. It's astonishing that her Navy can even fly their ships in formation given the complete and utter stupidity of virtually every officer other than Honor.
Other than Honor ... and officers she has either trained/inspired, has as father figures, or has fallen in love with.
But I love Honor - I don't mind when my friends are doing well. I like Horatio Caine, too.
Its been awhile but I don't remember her as an underdog. She was never with the Home Fleet but our hero was on independent commands. And wasn't her assignment after Balisk Station on the navy's finest most historic ship?
IMHO the problem with Honor Harrington is she isn't the most interesting character in the books ( I think Lester Tourville is ) nor the one with the most growth against adversity ( for me, that's Thomas Theisman ).
After a certain point, Honor is so rich, has several estates, and owns so much stuff she becomes hard to relate to.
The political side trips become ever more oppressive as the series goes on... the whole narrative comes to a halt while the bad guys send out for mustache twirlers, or if it's the good guys they have endless conversations about trivia everyone in the room already knows.
That being said, up until Echoes of Honor these are first rate space combat adventure stories.
David Weber has to know things have gone wrong, the last book, At All Costs, was heavily discounted to get it to sell ( I saw it at 40% off cover price once not that long after release ). An acquaintance of mine who owns a bookstore reported AAC had a high return rate; future books are going to have to be more tightly written for the series to continue.
After a certain point, Honor is so rich, has several estates, and owns so much stuff she becomes hard to relate to.
The political side trips become ever more oppressive as the series goes on... the whole narrative comes to a halt while the bad guys send out for mustache twirlers, or if it's the good guys they have endless conversations about trivia everyone in the room already knows.
That being said, up until Echoes of Honor these are first rate space combat adventure stories.
David Weber has to know things have gone wrong, the last book, At All Costs, was heavily discounted to get it to sell ( I saw it at 40% off cover price once not that long after release ). An acquaintance of mine who owns a bookstore reported AAC had a high return rate; future books are going to have to be more tightly written for the series to continue.
I'd also add Warner Caslette and several other characters. Latter day Honor reminds me of a high level ADnD character in a Monty Hall style campaign.
Maybe I'm expressing it wrong. IIRC, she was always being harassed and looked down on by her superiors and fighting to prove herself. Admittedly, it's been ages since i read the earkly books.
Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful!
I feel like posting a link to this thread at the Baen website.
I wouldn't surprised to learn that the cover art had hurt its sales.
I'm not sure if she ever even met Caparelli or Webster, or the intelligence officer whose name I suddenly can't recall (Patricia?), but I'd call all three of them intelligent, capable officers. Lucien Cortez, head of BuPers in his limited appearances, has come across as not as competent (or incorruptible), but even he is hardly an idiot.
And, for the 'other side', after spending three books demonizing her, when Sonja Hemphill finally showed up, she showed some form of courage and resolution, and has since become one of my favorite admirals, if only for the fact that she isn't completely one-dimensional.
That's one of the things that I fault the series on as well--it spent four books building up Caslet as an interesting, capable character, nearly Honor's equal both on and off the battlefield, and wrestling with two sides of his conscience...and then they get back to the Alliance and he's dropped like a hot potato.
That said, my opinion of the series as a whole has fallen significantly. The last book that I gladly reread is Echoes of Honor, and even then, I skip over large portions of it.
Please tell me they didn't use Michael Jackson as a model for Honor again.
The composition and typography are way worse than the likeness, which is in fact pretty attractive. Overall, something about the design suggests a comedy - I can't quite say why, but that's the impression I get.
Storm from the Shadows is out, anyone read?
Pat Givens, head of ONI; I'll add D'Orville (commander of home fleet), Admiral Theodosia Kusak for other military officers to that list. I'll also suggest the Duke of Cromerty, William Alexander (I'm up to Ashes of Victory in my rereading and I only think he met her once. Aside from the fact that he's White Haven's brother, he seems fairly competent to me as well.
Agreed on Caslet. Both he and Alfraido Yu seemed particularly interesting. That said, once Caslet has made his decision, there isn't a huge amount for him to "do" alongside Honor anymore.
That's one of the problems that I see with the amount of competent colleagues Honor has -- there is only so much command and story to go around.
I think that's one of the reasons that Andreas Venizelos was killed -- yes, it made sense from a story perspective, but he was somewhere betwen McKeon as honor's longtime friend and near-equal and deputy and Rafe Cardones, the young "puppy" she shepards to be a competent officer, and his usefulness or, ability to be distinct from the other two was waning.
Generally, though. We've seen our share of both particularly competent officers and woefully incompetent (Pavel Young and Admiral Santino come to mind as examples here, on the Manty side at least). And to some extent, Honor is going to try to work with the excellent officers that she's worked with in the past, and her superiors of skill would naturally want to work with her as well, so it makes sense that we "see" the best and the brightest more often.
With regard to the general direction of the books. I think that as Honor moves up in the world, it is only natural for the readers to see the larger workings of the political, military, and social machines of the universe. I will agree that there are points when Weber can be a bit... obtuse. I'm currently in the middle of a rather long discussion between Rob Pierre and Oscar Saint-Just that is a bit hard to get through; but for me, that's one of the things that I've enjoyed most about the series. Yes, Honor is /the/ main character, but we get a much larger picture of the universe than just her perspective. Comparing it to Star Trek (and allowing for the fact that ST is an episodic TV series rather than a series of novels) I'm aware of a certain bias towards the perspective of having a "single crew" perspective on the universe (the Enterprise, for example). Weber sees fit to get into the minds on both sides -- and present them as human beings trying to wrestle with their own decisions. There tend to be few of the "I'm evil and I'm going to take over the world" or "I want Spock dead NOW!" (read: Childish) villans, which is a big plus. [Hmm, I think I'll let that rest, at the risk of going off on a tangent about cinematic versus written Sci Fi]
I would agree that War of Honor was a particularly difficult read; as was, in many ways, In Enemy Hands. The latter took /for frakking ever/ to get to any serious action; it felt as though it was a giant Prologue to Echoes of Honor (which is one of my favorites of the series). I think part of the "problem" is Weber's historian background. The series is starting to feel much more like a history of the Manticore-Haven wars than a sci-fi action series. All of that is well and fine, but it can make some of the "low points" of the action [In Enemy Hands, War of Honor, some parts of Flag in Exile] hard to get through; especially at the rate we're getting new material.
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