Dating the Eugenics Wars

[EJA]

This spins out of my thread about Khan started earlier, and asks if the original date of the Eugenics Wars (1992-1996) should be retained, or moved forward into our future. Have your say.

 

[Mr Silver]

I like to think of the Eugenics Wars as happening like this

1969: Augments are secretly created in Asia, among them Khan Noonen Singh
1992: The Augments become public knowledge and the continued breeding of Genetically Engineered Humans despite this, becomes a story of controversy
1993: Khan Noonien Singh with his followers, becomes ruler of several East Asian nations
1994-1995: The Augments begin to fight amongst each other, eventually conspiring to overthrow Khan, perhaps annoyed that he's not bent on total World domination and that he would rather rule as a respected leader and not a Tyrant
1996: Several Nations join forces with Augments to recapture the nations from Khan, in exchange for Political Freedom and the right to exist, Khan escapes with 100 or so of his closest followers into Space by stealing the SS Botany Bay

2000's: Augments are isolated in one corner of the World, however they are kept sweet by the promises of Political Power, which is initially given to them

2020's: Augments are slowly growing in numbers, despite the ROW, banning Genetic Engineering

2030's: The Augments declare war with Eastern Nations, declaring themselves a force not to be ignored, this causes political controversy throughout the entire World

2040's: Relationships between several countries break down, The Augments declare war against the rest of the Human Race and are swiftly eliminated in an effort between several countries

2050's: Tensions boil over, Alliances break down and World War 3 begins

Late 2050's: World War 3 ends, entire countries devastated, Economies in tatters, restoration efforts begin

2063: Zephram Cochrane, conducts the first Warp Speed spaceflight, Vulcans decide to investigate and "First Contact" is made

 

[EJA]

Here's one interpretation I thought up:


September 11, 2001: Khan Noonien Singh is among the first Augments successfully born on one of the most momentous and devastating days in human history; his creators view 9/11 as proof of the need for superior beings.

2030: Khan is elected President of India.

2032: Under Khan's guidance, a large number of Middle Eastern and Asian nations join together and form the Eastern Coalition.

2033-2035: Khan's fellow Augments stage coups in various countries; many of them commit atrocities such as ethnic cleansing and unprovoked attacks on neighbouring countries, causing the UN to declare war on them. Eventually, after many casualties around the globe, the Augments are defeated....save for Khan, who has so far treated his subjects relatively well.

2036: But Khan's peace doesn't last. Seeing the carnage wrought by his brethren elsewhere, the general populace of the ECON nations begins to fear that Khan will one day turn on them. A mass uprising occurs, and Khan is forced to flee. However, the ECON remains in existence, but under normal humans.

 

[Mr Silver]

Here's one interpretation I thought up:


September 11, 2001: Khan Noonien Singh is among the first Augments successfully born on one of the most momentous and devastating days in human history; his creators view 9/11 as proof of the need for superior beings.

2030: Khan is elected President of India.

2032: Under Khan's guidance, a large number of Middle Eastern and Asian nations join together and form the Eastern Coalition.

2033-2035: Khan's fellow Augments stage coups in various countries; many of them commit atrocities such as ethnic cleansing and unprovoked attacks on neighbouring countries, causing the UN to declare war on them. Eventually, after many casualties around the globe, the Augments are defeated....save for Khan, who has so far treated his subjects relatively well.

2036: But Khan's peace doesn't last. Seeing the carnage wrought by his brethren elsewhere, the general populace of the ECON nations begins to fear that Khan will one day turn on them. A mass uprising occurs, and Khan is forced to flee. However, the ECON remains in existence, but under normal humans.

That works for me too, I think its pretty cool how you've reasoned that RL issues such as 9/11 can be transplanted into Trek and give an alternate explnation for the Eugenics Wars

However...I'd still like "Space Seed" and "TWOK" to have continunity, sure Spock could have got his dates wrong and Khan as well, but thats at a really extreme push, With my idea, I reasoned that Khan was the most notorious of the Augments because, even though he was only around in the initial stages of the Augment crisis, he set the foundations for what was to come and rather than ruling like a tyrant he ruled with "order", which is why Kirk, McCoy and Scotty displayed admiration for him, because even though his political agendas were questionable, he wasn't prepared to exterminate the "Genetically Inferior". Quite the opposite Khan believed the Augments should rule and ordinary Human should follow, he didn't have his subjects brutalised or killed, he eliminated a vast majority of Poverty, Disease and Famine in the countries that he ruled, perhaps as justification of his beliefs, although we do have to question what his methods were for eliminating these issues in Society... And obviously Khan conquered in the first place, to gain control of these nations, he didn't submit himself for Presidential Candidacy

 

[BillJ]

This spins out of my thread about Khan started earlier, and asks if the original date of the Eugenics Wars (1992-1996) should be retained, or moved forward into our future. Have your say.

You still haven't given a decent reason for moving the Eugenics Wars? Other than we've moved past the date in the real world...

If you move the Eugenics Wars... you may as well go ahead and cut Star Trek out of continuity. As it references the 1992-1996 date for the Wars, quite clearly.

 

[Mr Silver]

This spins out of my thread about Khan started earlier, and asks if the original date of the Eugenics Wars (1992-1996) should be retained, or moved forward into our future. Have your say.

You still haven't given a decent reason for moving the Eugenics Wars? Other than we've moved past the date in the real world...

If you move the Eugenics Wars... you may as well go ahead and cut Star Trek out of continuity. As it references the 1992-1996 date for the Wars, quite clearly.

I think the Eugenics Wars started as an isolated conflict between the Augments and other World Nations, once Khan disappeared, it remained a "Cold War" for several years until a set of events transpired, which resulted in the ban of Genetic Engineering, the remaining Augments being eliminated or incarcerated, the creation of Coalitions and then World War 3

The problem with the dates is that World War 3 in Trek Continunity occured in the 2050's, which is inconsistent that World War 3 occured as part of the Eugenics Wars (as stated by Spock), so justifying it as being a conflict that began in 1992, dimmed down in 1996 and was then a small part of the events that occured in World War 3 makes it easier to swallow where Continunity is concerned

 

[BillJ]

The problem with the dates is that World War 3 in Trek Continunity occured in the 2050's, which is inconsistent that World War 3 occured as part of the Eugenics Wars (as stated by Spock), so justifying it as being a conflict that began in 1992, dimmed down in 1996 and was then a small part of the events that occured in World War 3 makes it easier to swallow where Continunity is concerned

Or it could be that First Contact was flat wrong.

There is nothing to suggest that a nuclear exchange between two powers in the 2050's would necessarily need to be classified as a 'world war'. India and China could exchange nukes (or chemical weapons) and easily kill six hundred million without the conflict ever expanding beyond their borders.

Spock clearly states that the Eugenics Wars were the last of your so-called 'world wars' and in Bread and Circuses, he gives us the total dead at 37 million. So none of the information matches.

 

[sbk1234]

Well, it did really happen in the 1990s. That was until that whole Termperal Cold War messed everything up, moving the conflict to later in the 21st century. Until we get past the 2050s, in which case that pesky Temperal Cold War will mess things up again.

 

[C.E. Evans]

My Eugenics War/World War III Timeline:

1992: Eugenics Wars begin when Khan Noonien Singh and other genetically-enhanced supermen seize control of forty nations--roughly one-quarter of planet Earth. Khan becomes the undisputed ruler of this Augmented-controlled region that spans from the Middle East to South Asia.

1993: In-fighting between the Augments begin despite many nations joining forces in international opposition to their New Order. The escalating conflict falls just short of becoming labeled a third World War, even though it involves the majority of Earth's nations. The term "the Eugenics Wars" is coined instead by a leading expert on the Augments.

1996: Eugenics Wars end with the defeat of Khan himself by the international alliance. Rather than surrender to inferiors, he elects to escape Earth altogether with several dozen of his most loyal Augment followers aboard the sleeper ship S.S. Botany Bay.

Poet Phineas Tarbolde publishes the initially controversial "Nightingale Woman" on the Canopus Planet.

1997: Voyager-6 is launched as the last of the Voyager Series probes. It will ultimately be replaced by the Nomad Series five years later.

2050: World War III officially begins between the Eastern Coalition and other factions.

2053: World War III ends. The post-atomic horror begins.

 

[T'Girl]

The problem with the dates is that World War 3 in Trek Continunity occured in the 2050's ...

Spock clearly states that the Eugenics Wars were the last of your so-called 'world war' and in Bread and Circuses, he gives us the total dead at 37 million.

SPOCK: ... the six million who died in your first world war, the eleven million who died in your second, the thirty seven million who died in your third.

Problem here is Spock isn't even close. Total killed in WWI was over 16 million and that doesn't include the people kill by the Spanish influenza epidemic that followed. WWII killed well over 70 million (mostly Russian and Chinese). Even if Spock were speaking solely of combat deaths of military personnel, his numbers, and apparently his knowledge, are shallow.

In Space Seed, Spock confuses the eugenic war and the third world war and has to be corrected by McCoy. When speaking off the top of his head, Spock isn't always completely accurate. At least when it comes to Earth history.

Spock: The mid 1990's was the era of your last so-called World War.
McCoy: The Eugenics Wars.
Spock: Of course.

It's Riker in FC that deliver the figure of 600 million dead for the third world war, Riker in a few episode is shown to have a good grasp of Earth history. It possible that when Spock say "37 million" dead he was remembering (perhaps inaccurately) the death figures for the wrong war. Spock might have been attempting to give the combat deaths of military personnel for the eugenics war.

Given how much he was off for the first two world wars, again assuming he meant only combat deaths of military personnel, the eugenics war figure is probably around 40 to 45 million for that group. It possible that this conflict didn't involve nuclear weapon, but this is uncertain.

I think we can be certain that the eugenics war and the third world war are two separate discrete events. One might have lead to the other, but it would seem that they were separate. Khan ruled until 1996 and was "the last of the tyrants to be overthrown," the Enterprise E (in FC) arrived in the past in April 2063, approximately 10 years after the third world war. By Data's statement, that would seem to be 10 years after it ended, rather than began.

In addition, from Captain Archer's words during Hatchery, there was another war call the eugenics war in approximately 2085, in which his great grand-father fought. (Archer was 41 in 2154) If we can have three world wars, I guess we can have two eugenics wars.

I like to think of the Eugenics Wars as happening like this
1969: Augments are secretly created in Asia, among them Khan Noonen Singh

Khan lost power in 1996 and presumably left Earth that same year, "frozen" he didn't age, if Khan was the same general age as the actor who portrayed him, then Khan's was born in 1950. And Khan doesn't strike me as a first effort or a first generation. So let's back it up, the selective breeding program to create a group of supermen began in the mid/late nineteenth century. Perhaps initially in America, Britain or Germany. Genetic material from study subjects were selected for intelligence and physical superiority, Khan and his peer group were the fifth or sixth generation.

In 1984 following the assassinated of Indira Gandhi, Noonien Singh age 34 become leader of the Indian government

The following year the charismatic Singh forges a political alliance with Pakistan.
1989, Afghanistan recovering from the Russian withdraw and series of lead weak coalition governments join Singh's alliance.
1991, with the covert assistance of the western powers, Burma's military junta is over thrown in a coup, India annexes Burma. Indonesia soon follows.
1992, following the Gulf War Singh employs proxies to seize control of Iraq, that same year, surrounded and threaten with India's nuclear weapons, Iran quietly comes under Singh's control.

By the end of 1992, at age 42 Singh was the leader of one quarter of the world (or one quarter of the population). His government, now almost entirely composed of other supermen, proclaims Noonen Singh "Khan."

1993, in over forty countries, more supermen seize power, mostly through intrigue, assassination, power plays and military coups. All of these governments are tyrannies.

1996, by the beginning of this year most of the supermen are fighting each other and the non-supermen lead nations too. Internal revolutions combined with attacks from other supermen at his flanks lead to Khan being over thrown by his own people.

Let me give world war three a bit of thought.

 

[Galileo7]

What happened between 1967 and 1996 Earth in VOY Future's End two-part episode, Henry Starling must have altered history and moved the Eugenics Wars into the 21st century. http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Henry_Starling

 

[BillJ]

SPOCK: ... the six million who died in your first world war, the eleven million who died in your second, the thirty seven million who died in your third.

Problem here is Spock isn't even close. Total killed in WWI was over 16 million and that doesn't include the people kill by the Spanish influenza epidemic that followed. WWII killed well over 70 million (mostly Russian and Chinese). Even if Spock were speaking solely of combat deaths of military personnel, his numbers, and apparently his knowledge, are shallow.

In Space Seed, Spock confuses the eugenic war and the third world war and has to be corrected by McCoy. When speaking off the top of his head, Spock isn't always completely accurate. At least when it comes to Earth history.

Spock: The mid 1990's was the era of your last so-called World War.
McCoy: The Eugenics Wars.
Spock: Of course.

The number of dead being inaccurate doesn't mean a thing. The whole point I've been trying to make all along is that Star Trek's timeline and history is not our own. Things are different, we didn't launch a nuclear weapons platform into Earth orbit in 1968 nor did we launch the Nomad probe in the early 2000's nor did we launch the Voyager VI probe in the late 20th century nor were there cryogenic freezers that were launched into space in the late 20th century. Do we need to retcon every fictional event of the Star Trek universe to match up with our real world timeline? Are we that bereft of imagination?

I always saw that Spock/Mccoy exchange as McCoy simply spouting off the popular name of the conflict to get under Spock's skin. Plus Spock was sitting right there at the bridge computer... I doubt he was guessing. YMMV.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The whole point I've been trying to make all along is that Star Trek's timeline and history is not our own.

But the larger point is: should it be? I think it should. And any futzing we have to do in order to get it to work out okay is justified.

Alternatively, we can decide that Star Trek hasn't been our future until JJ Abrams bopped it over into another reality - our reality. We don't know when the Eugenics War happened in the new reality, so we can use whatever date we like, and decide that the new reality is ours at last.

And since that's the reality that we're now going to see for the foreseeable future - and because they can't both have the same past (it's a new reality, not an altered timeline) - then let's keep the original timing for the Eugenics Wars etc for the old universe and start fresh with the new. Everybody wins.

 

[BillJ]

But the larger point is: should it be?

I don't. This isn't the comic book industry where you reboot every five years so you can tell us about the umpteenth death of Superman. Star Trek has always felt a bit more... substantial. I guess that has been the nice thing about writers sharing a universe for forty years. They always tried to be consistent with the material around them... even if they weren't always successful.

Alternatively, we can decide that Star Trek hasn't been our future until JJ Abrams bopped it over into another reality - our reality. We don't know when the Eugenics War happened in the new reality, so we can use whatever date we like, and decide that the new reality is ours at last.

But the Abramsverse split the timeline at the point of the Narada's entrance... all events before that should remain unchanged.

 

[Mr Silver]

Lets go with what I said earlier for a moment, Khan is born along with the first batch of Augments sometime in the 1960's...now considering Genetic Engineering was in its infancy in the 1960's, its unlikely that Augments would be around (heck we can't even create Augments nowadays), however...since this is Star Trek..

Lets say that an Alien Scientist was undercover observing Humans in the late 1950's, whilst there he made detailed notes of the Genetic Makeup of Humans, including possible ways to improve them (perhaps he came from a race where Genetic Engineering was common), now say the Alien Scientist accidently leaves some of his notes behind, when his placement on Earth is complete....

What if a Geneticist got a hold of these notes and realised that he could do a "Henry Starling", reverse enginnering these technically advanced equations and interpretating them the best he could, thus he stumbles upon a way to create a superior breed of human

Heck they could have made this into an episode of ENT, where Daniels and co have to go back and stop the Alien Scientist from going to Earth and retrieving his notes because without his carelessness, there would be no

*Eugenics War (and a subsequent ban on Genetic Engineering)
*Third World War (and no motivation to create peace)
*Warp Flight
*First Contact With The Vulcans

And so on...

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm in favor of the sliding time scale. When real history encroaches on Trek's "history", move the Trek history up the scale. The need for hard and fast dates is more of a hindrence than a help. As has been proven time and time again. Make Trek and alternate reality/history is also stumbling block. It was created as a future for our world and should remain so. Every even we read about in our history books should be part of the Trek Universe's history as well. Trek loses something important if it it becomes an alternate history. That someting is its connection to us. Gene was right when he kept the actual time period TOS took place in vague. Too bad he didnt stick to his guns.

 

[Mr Silver]

Ok heres another idea based upon what was said in "Space Seed"

1992: Khan seizes control of Northern Asia, rules with a Totalirism System
1993: Khan and his followers branch out and gain control of 40 seperate nations within the Continent of Asia
1994: Some of the Augments rise up against Khan
1995: Several other World Nations go to War against the Augments, they succeed in defeating them, most of them are killed in the conflict, the rest are incarcerated, however Khan and around 100 of his followers go on the run
1996: Khan and his followers steal the "SS Botany Bay" and launch into Space without detection

2020's: The Eastern Coalition (a United Nations of sorts between several Asian Countries is formed) as a result of the Augment's occupation, many Asian countries feel that an alliance would make them strong again (similar to Cardassia joining the Dominion)

2030's: Relationships between the Western Nations and the Eastern Coalition break down

2040's: A Cold War of sorts begins between the Wester Nations and the Eastern Coalition, a bill or sorts is created with the intention of cooling hostilities, one of the ammendments is the prohibition of Genetic Engineering, initially this works, however things soon get nasty once again

Early 2050's: Diplomats, Businesses and Organisations withdraw from either side and return to their respective Countries

Mid 2050's: World War Three begins

Later 2050's: World War Three Ends

2063: Zephram Cochrane conducts his Warp Flight

 

[Galileo7]

1996 according to canon VOY Future's End episode set in 1996 Earth has no Khan, no World War and no S.S. Botany Bay. Voyager was in orbit and never encountered anything.

 

[BillJ]

1996 according to canon VOY Future's End episode set in 1996 Earth has no Khan, no World War and no S.S. Botany Bay. Voyager was in orbit and never encountered anything.

Don't be so sure... Rain Robinson has a model of a DY-500 on her desk at the observatory.

 

[Galileo7]

1996 according to canon VOY Future's End episode set in 1996 Earth has no Khan, no World War and no S.S. Botany Bay. Voyager was in orbit and never encountered anything.

Don't be so sure... Rain Robinson has a model of a DY-500 on her desk at the observatory.

Excellent note, so is the SS Botany Bay in only the design stages(model) in 1996 VOY "Future's End", then the Eugenics Wars has not happened yet?