Data and Spock

[carcinoGeneticist]

Not sure whether this goes in General Discussion or TNG or TOS so my best bet is probably to put it here. Mods, feel free to move it or whatever.
This is just a thing that I noticed while watching TNG and have pointed out to various people.
So, I know Data is supposed to be like the TNG equivalent of Spock, that's known information. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say is also known information but I'd like to point it out anyway, but I've noticed that despite being there for the same point they're both very similar but in a way, the opposite, because Spock has emotions he doesn't want and Data doesn't have them (debatable but not the point of this post) but wants them. Idk if this was like the point or whatever but I find it interesting either way haha

 

[Tosk]

TNG itself points this out in Unification II.

 

[Darth Thanos]

Even if a character fits a role similar to an older character, it does not mean it has to be a carbon-copy. As you pointed, Spock and Data have a similar general premise, but different details. And same goes for later ones: Tuvok is not a human-Vulcan hybrid but a complete Vulcan, without the underlying emotions that Spock may had for his mixed heritage (there's the deep buried emotions that Vulcans themselves have, but that's something else), T'Pol is caught in Archer's feud with Vulcans, and T'Lyn is basically the "comically serious" of the gang.

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

Even if a character fits a role similar to an older character, it does not mean it has to be a carbon-copy.

Yes, yes, I'm aware, I just found it interesting that the two of them were "flipped" in that aspect.

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

TNG itself points this out in Unification II.

Oh, really? I have yet to watch Unification. Probably soon I will.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Odo, the HoloDoctor and occasionally Seven of Nine have ''searching'' similarities to Data and Spock. Obviously not accidental. There's probably one on ENTERPRISE also, but I only watched two episodes of it.

 

[Frontis]

Actually I don't think Data and Spock have much in common.

 

[Farscape One]

I think someone mentioned this before (can't remember who), but I think Spock actually has more in common with Worf than Data.


1. Both have inner struggles regarding their heritage. In Spock's case, being half Vulcan and human by birth... and trying not to let his human side out. With Worf, raised by humans and worked a large chunk of his life with them while being fully Klingon and practicing their religion, honor codes, etc. He has had to choose between Federation values and the Empire many times.

2. Spock, in many ways, tries to be the most Vulcan a Vulcan can be. Worf tries to be the most upstanding Klingon a Klingon can be. (At least, according to Kahless and other Klingon codes of honor.)

3. Both suppress the more volatile nature of their heritage... Spock using logic to hold back the extreme Vulcan emotions. Worf with extreme discipline and not really allowing himself to have the full zest for life. (Dax points this out in "LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN...".)

4. Both are essentially outsiders of their homeworlds, for different reasons.


On the surface, it's easy to see the similarities between Spock and Data with their incredible minds. But in reality, Data is fascinated by humanity and admires it and wants to be human, basically. Spock has some disdain for humanity and does his best to NOT be human.

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

I think someone mentioned this before (can't remember who), but I think Spock actually has more in common with Worf than Data.

I've had this thought myself before on a couple occasions. Glad to see someone else noticed hahaha

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I think someone mentioned this before (can't remember who), but I think Spock actually has more in common with Worf than Data.

It may have been me. :-)

Not sure whether this goes in General Discussion or TNG or TOS so my best bet is probably to put it here. Mods, feel free to move it or whatever.
This is just a thing that I noticed while watching TNG and have pointed out to various people.
So, I know Data is supposed to be like the TNG equivalent of Spock, that's known information. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say is also known information but I'd like to point it out anyway, but I've noticed that despite being there for the same point they're both very similar but in a way, the opposite, because Spock has emotions he doesn't want and Data doesn't have them (debatable but not the point of this post) but wants them. Idk if this was like the point or whatever but I find it interesting either way haha

I find the Data/Spock comparison to be quite lazy. They differ significantly.

Spock has emotions and wants to purge himself of them. Data has no emotions and really wants to experience them.

Spock has a wry, sardonic sense of humour and can be very cutting. Data is very naive and often doesn’t even understand simple humour.

Spock kind of revels in his ‘outsider’ status and maintains a distance from even close friends. Data is the outsider who wants to get in.

I have always said a better equivalent in TNG for Spock is Worf. Both are outsiders from both their ‘home’ culture and human culture. Both of them are the awquard 'outside' man.

 

[MaximRecoil]

I find the Data/Spock comparison to be quite lazy. They differ significantly.

It's not lazy. It's a good comparison with regard to what each character brings to the table, i.e., their assets / how they can be used in common situations that arise in the stories. Their biggest asset is their high level of intellect and logical thinking. Other assets include superior strength and durability compared to humans, and they can both believably be written to be immune or partially immune to diseases or other things that affect humans.

Spock has emotions and wants to purge himself of them. Data has no emotions and really wants to experience them.

That's a trivial difference that doesn't normally affect the end result, i.e., neither one of them normally display any significant emotions nor base their decisions/recommendations on them.

Spock has a wry, sardonic sense of humour and can be very cutting. Data is very naive and often doesn’t even understand simple humour.

Spock: "A joke... is... a... story with a humorous climax?" -- Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

Spock kind of revels in his ‘outsider’ status and maintains a distance from even close friends. Data is the outsider who wants to get in.

That's another trivial difference that only affects social interactions.

I have always said a better equivalent in TNG for Spock is Worf. Both are outsiders from both their ‘home’ culture and human culture. Both of them are the awquard 'outside' man.

In many, if not most, stories, a writer could substitute Data for Spock or vice versa without having to change the script much, if at all. That's not the case for Spock/Worf, since they don't have the same main asset (intellect). Worf's intellect is ordinary and he's emotional (prone to anger), which is typical of Klingons.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Sure. You think what you like. Quoting me three months after I made a comment doesn’t inspire me to reengage with the discussion I’m afraid.

I stand by what I said. You do you.

 

[JLA]

It's not lazy. It's a good comparison with regard to what each character brings to the table, i.e., their assets / how they can be used in common situations that arise in the stories. Their biggest asset is their high level of intellect and logical thinking. Other assets include superior strength and durability compared to humans, and they can both believably be written to be immune or partially immune to diseases or other things that affect humans.



That's a trivial difference that doesn't normally affect the end result, i.e., neither one of them normally display any significant emotions nor base their decisions/recommendations on them.



Spock: "A joke... is... a... story with a humorous climax?" -- Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home



That's another trivial difference that only affects social interactions.



In many, if not most, stories, a writer could substitute Data for Spock or vice versa without having to change the script much, if at all. That's not the case for Spock/Worf, since they don't have the same main asset (intellect). Worf's intellect is ordinary and he's emotional (prone to anger), which is typical of Klingons.

For what it's worth, I got a lot out of your post and hope you'll continue writing content here.

 

[Farscape One]

It's not lazy. It's a good comparison with regard to what each character brings to the table, i.e., their assets / how they can be used in common situations that arise in the stories. Their biggest asset is their high level of intellect and logical thinking. Other assets include superior strength and durability compared to humans, and they can both believably be written to be immune or partially immune to diseases or other things that affect humans.



That's a trivial difference that doesn't normally affect the end result, i.e., neither one of them normally display any significant emotions nor base their decisions/recommendations on them.



Spock: "A joke... is... a... story with a humorous climax?" -- Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home



That's another trivial difference that only affects social interactions.



In many, if not most, stories, a writer could substitute Data for Spock or vice versa without having to change the script much, if at all. That's not the case for Spock/Worf, since they don't have the same main asset (intellect). Worf's intellect is ordinary and he's emotional (prone to anger), which is typical of Klingons.

While I agree there are surface level similarities between Spock and Data, there are enough differences that make a Spock/Data comparison not be fully accurate.

Some of the 'trivial differences' you noted are really important ones. For example, the Vulcan arrogance and condescension of Spock's logic vs. emotion is a fundamental personality trait. Data was never condescending about his intelligence or logic. The interactions between Spock or Data with other characters would be quite different if that personality trait was altered.

Think of it like this: you work with two people, both intelligent. One is pretty easy going, the other is arrogant and sledgehammers the fact they know more about the job than you at almost every opportunity. Are your interactions with both of them going to be the same?

Definitely not, because with the easy going one, you are likely more relaxed and at ease when duscussing a work situation with them vs. being on feeling the need to be on guard with the arrogant one who can likely make it tougher to work as a team on a problem.

(I'm not saying Spock was to that level of arrogance or anything. I am simply using a real world scenario because we have no actual Vulcans or androids on real life to use as a basis of comparison.)

 

[BillJ]

Data is essentially a mix of Questor from "The Questor Tapes" and Xon from the aborted Star Trek II of the late-70's.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

As others have said, Spock and Data meet in a TNG episode, and have a conversation where they compare and contrast their situations.