Darth Vader knowing Luke is his son

[Temis the Vorta]

Well Anakin knew he had a son for years and couldn't find out who it is over the years.

Did he? He was told he killed her in his rage, not that she gave birth then died. And during her funeral she still looked pregnant; they were hiding the evidence she gave birth.

That was a hilariously skimpy attempt at a cover-up. For starters, Anakin shouldn't have been so completely gullible that he'd take Palps' word for it. (Of course he was gullible about everything else, but that's a larger issue of bad characterization.)

And imagine the number of people who must have known the truth about Padme - doesn't Naboo have a coroner? How about her family members, friends of the family, political hangers-on, that sort of secret would get around. There's no way it could stay a secret for 20 years. It wouldn't stay secret for 20 minutes.

Compared with that, keeping Luke "secret" with a Jedi on Tatooine under the name of Skywalker and Leia "secret" as an adopted daughter of one of the very few trusted allies the Jedi had left, are far easier to believe.

For example, during the trench scene in Episode IV, as Vader bears down on Luke's X-Wing but just can't get a lock, Vader's line will be changed to: "This one has a high midochlorian count!"

You...are...evil!

 

[Set Harth]

Yes, we know what Palps looks like from ROTS, but they still should have left the big reveal for ROTJ.

But if someone first watches the films in I-VI order, they already know what he looks like from ROTS, as you say, so this is really only a reveal for those first watching in IV-VI,I-III order who are watching the most recent version of TESB.

And imagine the number of people who must have known the truth about Padme - doesn't Naboo have a coroner?

The Jedi doctored an official autopsy. Aside from that you really only have the Polis Massans and their droids.

How about her family members, friends of the family, political hangers-on, that sort of secret would get around.

It's made sufficiently clear that her family didn't know, which is why they never attempted to recover the children. If the family had known that would indeed have alerted the Empire, hence the need for the deception.

Anakin shouldn't have been so completely gullible that he'd take Palps' word for it.

We do see him question it at first, but it's possible that he was subsequently able to ascertain through the Force that she was, in fact, dead.

The Evil Galactic Empire should have the resources to determine the truth about Padme giving birth. Dig up her grave, for starters.

Why would they do that if they don't suspect there to be anything amiss? Do they just randomly go around digging up graves just in case?

Maybe she figured those silly rules didn't apply to her and her husband, who was a teenager

He wasn't a teenager by the time of ROTS. ( Not even in AOTC, if certain sources are to be believed, but that still really cuts it close and isn't in the film. )

What should have tipped him off is a known Jedi sympathizer turning up with a newborn immediately after Vader's kid(s) "died".

Not really. People turn up with newborns all the time.

Therefore, I'm inclined to think that Vader didn't realize his son was alive until the Emperor told him.

If Vader found out through Imperial spies or captured Rebels that the one who destroyed the DS was named "Skywalker", he might have gotten the idea then.

 

[Broccoli]

Any thoughts on this issue?

Isn't it obvious? Vader was asking about how babies were made. Everybody knows this.

 

[EJA]

3P0 was on Chewie's back in the carbon freezing chamber when Vader dunks Han. Why do you think that 3P0's parts were returned to Chewie and he was allowed to keep them? Vader saw his old creation and gave it back to them to be repaired.

There was a story in one of the Star Wars Tales issues where exactly that happened. Forget what the title was though, or what issue it was in.

As I've said, there are multiple examples in the SW Expanded Universe of Vader knowing Luke is his offspring prior to Empire, or at least knowing his name. So Vader was either lying to Palpatine, or was still wrestling with the huge revelation at the time.

 

[RandyS]

3P0 was on Chewie's back in the carbon freezing chamber when Vader dunks Han. Why do you think that 3P0's parts were returned to Chewie and he was allowed to keep them? Vader saw his old creation and gave it back to them to be repaired.

There was a story in one of the Star Wars Tales issues where exactly that happened. Forget what the title was though, or what issue it was in.

I don't remember the issue either (I read all those in the Trade Paperbacks), but the title was one of 3PO's favorite sayings "Thank the Maker".

 

[DarthPipes]

I think Vader knew but was either lying to Palpatine or just in deniel. He discovers that the rebel who destroyed the Death Star is Skywalker. How is that possible? He was told his wife died while she was still pregnant. He realizes the boy was strong in the Force and probably learned he was from Tatooine. Plus, he was trained by Obi-Wan. Maybe it's some kind of trick. Or maybe he is Vader's son and Vader has to find out about it.

If Vader didn't know for sure, I think he strongly suspected it but was in deniel.

 

[EJA]

On a related note, does it ever annoy anybody else a little bit that in the original trilogy, Luke's mother is only ever referred to once, very briefly, in a scene in ROTJ? People keep going on and on about Luke's father, but no one - not even Luke - seems to give much thought to his other parent.

 

[the G-man]

I think both of the issues raised above are clearly the result of Lucas making most of this up as he went along.

I'm pretty sure that Darth being Luke's dad was the plan even during filming of the original film based on: (a) some comments that Guinness made about filming the "a young jedi named Darth Vader..." scene; (b) the similarly between "Vader" and "Vater" (father in German/Dutch).

But the rest of the backstory: mostly made up as each film progressed.

 

[Rarewolf]

On a related note, does it ever annoy anybody else a little bit that in the original trilogy, Luke's mother is only ever referred to once, very briefly, in a scene in ROTJ? People keep going on and on about Luke's father, but no one - not even Luke - seems to give much thought to his other parent.

Even that mention is a problem, it doesn't entirely tie with what we later saw. 'Died when Leia was very young' fine, but ehen she was minutes old? So may have be her adopted mother.

Luke grew up thinking he was an orphan, but there's no reason that Owen and Beru didn't talk to him about his mother -they did meet her - he just had no direct memories. Finding out that everything he thought he knew about his father was untrue would make him question everything he was told about his mother.

 

[the G-man]

Luke grew up thinking he was an orphan, but there's no reason that Owen and Beru didn't talk to him about his mother

Other than the fact it could have opened up a whole can of worms telling Luke his mother was a princess. Remember: Owen was terrified of Luke going off and leaving the farm.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I think both of the issues raised above are clearly the result of Lucas making most of this up as he went along.

I'm pretty sure that Darth being Luke's dad was the plan even during filming of the original film based on:

I don't think it was I heard that one of the drafts of ESB had Anakin's force ghost making an appearance.

 

[Whofan]

There's actually a pretty cool storyline in the (now defunct) EMPIRE comic series that deals with some of this. I think it was called "Shadows of their fathers".

Basically it's set between ANH and ESB, but relates to the Clone Wars storyline "Last stand on Jaabim", where Anakin is forced (Mainly on Palpatine's orders) to withdraw and leave a group of Republic fighters to the seperatist army. Years later, Luke goes to the planet, and begins to learn that his father wasn't exactly the great hero he thought he was. Plus Vader's in the story too, of course. Luke at the end of the story, realizes that Obi-Wan wasn't exactly telling him 100% of the truth, and wonders what else he doesn't know about his father...


There are also the novels by Troy Denning, which although they take place after ROTJ, they have Luke and Leia gradually learn about what happened in the prequels and who their mother was.

 

[Rarewolf]

Luke grew up thinking he was an orphan, but there's no reason that Owen and Beru didn't talk to him about his mother

Other than the fact it could have opened up a whole can of worms telling Luke his mother was a princess. Remember: Owen was terrified of Luke going off and leaving the farm.

She was an elected Queen and Senator, but we don't know the Lars even knew that. They met her long enough to make their own impressions or her.

I suppose the real question is why they never just raised him as a son, its not as if they had to explain away having a toddler overnight, or had a long standing history with Annikin. They spent more time with Padme.

 

[the G-man]

Luke grew up thinking he was an orphan, but there's no reason that Owen and Beru didn't talk to him about his mother

Other than the fact it could have opened up a whole can of worms telling Luke his mother was a princess. Remember: Owen was terrified of Luke going off and leaving the farm.

She was an elected Queen and Senator....

Thank you for schooling me on the finer points of fantasy pedigree. I meant no offense by referring to her by the wrong imaginary title.

 

[Silvercrest]

I remember years ago, the poster GabeHimself had a comment on imaginary titles; namely, that Luke came across as an unschooled punk for calling Palpatine "Your Highness." As in, "You've failed, your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

You address a duke as "Your Grace", a prince as "Your Highness", a king as "Your Majesty", and an emperor as "Your Imperial Majesty." No wonder Palpatine was so mad.

For those wondering, Princess Leia can alternately be addressed as "Your Worship" or "Your Hotness." Queen Amidala can be referred to as "Your Royal Hotness", but only when she takes off that makeup that makes it look like she got punched in the mouth.

 

[JoeZhang]

I think both of the issues raised above are clearly the result of Lucas making most of this up as he went along.

I'm pretty sure that Darth being Luke's dad was the plan even during filming of the original film based on: (a) some comments that Guinness made about filming the "a young jedi named Darth Vader..." scene; (b) the similarly between "Vader" and "Vater" (father in German/Dutch).

But the rest of the backstory: mostly made up as each film progressed.

If I remember correctly, the idea of Vader being the father of Luke is something that arrives in a quite late draft of ESB. Until that point, 'Father Skywalker' and Darth Vader (Darth being his first name rather than a title) are separate characters.

 

[Set Harth]

I'm pretty sure that Darth being Luke's dad was the plan even during filming of the original film based on: (a) some comments that Guinness made about filming the "a young jedi named Darth Vader..." scene

Very interesting... can these comments be found anywhere?

 

[JoeZhang]

I'm pretty sure that Darth being Luke's dad was the plan even during filming of the original film based on: (a) some comments that Guinness made about filming the "a young jedi named Darth Vader..." scene

Very interesting... can these comments be found anywhere?

You have to be very careful when trying to analyse Star Wars, Lucasfilms and Lucas both have a tendency to alter history in a revisionist fashion to support whatever claim they are making this week. Lucas originally says in the 1970s and 1980s that it's all phonetic and made-up, later when he's trying to claim it's all carefully planned out, this changes to the claims about the Dutch language and other oddities.

 

[Whofan]

I think originally Vader was actually intended to be a fairly minor villain, sort of a cyborg general (This might have later inspired General Greivous, oddly enough). The iconic armor suit came to be when the script called for Vader to be in space (presumabely when boarding the blockade runner in an earlier script; in the finished movie the ship appears to be docked with the Star Destroyer) the same logic applies to the stormtrooper and TIE fighter pilot design, I think. Plus of course there's some samurai influence in the design. Even in the finished film he comes off as a more minor character than in the sequels/prequels.


Lucas also considered making Toht from Raiders of the Lost Ark a Cyborg of sorts, I think, with a machine gun hand. Thankfully, they totally dropped that (Although Toht's burned hand still has a role in the plot).

 

[Admiral_Young]

Again as always when discussions about Lucas's intentions regarding the Star Wars universe creation and original intent with characters I must refer and recommend to the excellent "The Secret History of Star Wars" by Michael Kamiski who has done a painstaking job of analyzing Lucas from the very beginning of his filmmaking career and influences that went into the creation of "Star Wars". It also focuses on Lucas own revisionist history regarding the nine picture saga. Conduct a google search and you should be able to find it easily.