Darth Vader knowing Luke is his son

[DarthPipes]

There's actually a pretty cool storyline in the (now defunct) EMPIRE comic series that deals with some of this. I think it was called "Shadows of their fathers".

Basically it's set between ANH and ESB, but relates to the Clone Wars storyline "Last stand on Jaabim", where Anakin is forced (Mainly on Palpatine's orders) to withdraw and leave a group of Republic fighters to the seperatist army. Years later, Luke goes to the planet, and begins to learn that his father wasn't exactly the great hero he thought he was. Plus Vader's in the story too, of course. Luke at the end of the story, realizes that Obi-Wan wasn't exactly telling him 100% of the truth, and wonders what else he doesn't know about his father...


There are also the novels by Troy Denning, which although they take place after ROTJ, they have Luke and Leia gradually learn about what happened in the prequels and who their mother was.

The Clone Wars comic arc "Last Stand of Jabiim" was my favorite. Good, dark story with what becomes a very bloody battle. I thought afterwards it would be great if Luke ever visited the planet and low and behold, Empire does a big story arc on it.

In the SW Annotated Screenplays books (published 97-98), Lucas said he wanted one of the twins to have a memory of their mother. Though he very clearly reversed himself in the prequels.

I've never known why Lucas has felt the need to lie and say that the nine movie thing was just a media creation. There's a ton of stuff from LFL saying there would be nine movies (very early on even 12) and Lucas himself hints at it in the foreword to the 20th anniversary of the Splinter in the Mind's Eye book. In the recently published The Making of The Empire Strikes Back book, there's an old interview where he says he went a little overboard with how many movies there were. He says that seven were planned originally. I think that he originally thought nine but realized he could wrap it up a lot sooner and also realized it would take years to do another trilogy. The prequels took him about 11 years from start to finish. If he changed his mind, that's certainly his choice and I can understand why. But there's no reason for him to lie and claim that nine movies was a media creation.

That same Empire book contains an old interview with Mark Hamill where he wonders if Alec Guiness knew that Vader was Luke's father. He points out a scene I think everyone picks up on. When Luke asks how his father died, Obi-Wan looks away for a moment before starting. It's the look of a man who doesn't want to tell him the truth and is hiding something. It totally works for me. As another poster observed, Darth Vader in Dutch means "Dark Father." So I'm inclined to believe GL more when he says the connection was planned out from the beginning. Luke and Leia were twins I believe in the second draft of ANH but it's clear that's not what GL was thinking in ANH and ESB. There is a scene or two cut out of ESB where Luke and Leia are on on the verge of a passionate kiss.

 

[Phily B]

Maybe the pilot who blew up the Death Star having a strong connection with the force, blowing up the Death Star without a targetting computer and being called Skywalker gave it away. He obviously knew it was his son after all that, Lucas is just a fuck nut who keeps trying to ruin his own legacy. I think the ESB title crawl says Vader is obsessed with finding Skywalker.

 

[Gaith]

On a related note, does it ever annoy anybody else a little bit that in the original trilogy, Luke's mother is only ever referred to once, very briefly, in a scene in ROTJ? People keep going on and on about Luke's father, but no one - not even Luke - seems to give much thought to his other parent.

Even that mention is a problem, it doesn't entirely tie with what we later saw.

That's only a problem if you're not a proud member of the... (see below )

 

[Jax]

For example, during the trench scene in Episode IV, as Vader bears down on Luke's X-Wing but just can't get a lock, Vader's line will be changed to: "This one has a high midochlorian count!"

God I hope that is a joke.

 

[Blue_Trek]

There is a simple answer to this.
Luke SKYWALKER is an Rebel Alliance hero that blew up the DS1. His name would get out there. Vader & the Emperor would have heard about this by TESB. Vader would have known the pilot he was tailing was strong in the force and the one who pulled off the winning shot. Put 2 & 2 together and it is not a far stretch.
The question on Vader's and the Emperor's mind would really be, HOW? The son of Skywalker is acknowledged in the conversion.
Then they both use the force to confirm there suspicions that Luke Skywalker was hidden from the purge. They both have no clue about Leia until the throne room scene in ROTJ.
It's seems that in TESB and on into ROTJ the force does what it did the Jedi council in regards to not being albe to sense Sidious when he is right in front of them. But now it is happening to the Emperor, Vader has a stronger connection with his fleshly son, so he isn't blocked.

 

[JoeZhang]

As another poster observed, Darth Vader in Dutch means "Dark Father."

Well no, not really.

 

[Set Harth]

You have to be very careful when trying to analyse Star Wars, Lucasfilms and Lucas both have a tendency to alter history in a revisionist fashion to support whatever claim they are making this week.

As do some fans, and even some of the authors contracted to produce books for the franchise. That's why I'm intrigued by the G-man's suggestion that comments by Alec Guinness tell a different tale than the one successfully promoted by the "Lucas is TEH LYING LIAR who LIES" crowd.

Even that mention is a problem, it doesn't entirely tie with what we later saw.

Or does it? Infants don't have memories from the moment of birth.

Well no, not really.

But Vader is the word for father, though pronounced differently. That seems to be the significant part. The character is obviously "dark".

 

[Captaindemotion]

He doesn't feel Kenobi's presence straight away.

I've always thought that he did but couldn't believe what he felt until he actually saw Kenobi.

It's amazing he never really meets the Droids in the sequels. Would he still have shot at R2 in the X-Wing had he known ?

Well, given how he had few qualms about striking down younglings and Padawans - i.e. children - in ROTS, I really don't think a droid would have cost him a second thought, especially given that he was, as he saw it, protecting the Death Star and helping bring order to the galaxy.

 

[Set Harth]

He doesn't feel Kenobi's presence straight away.

I've always thought that he did but couldn't believe what he felt until he actually saw Kenobi.

VADER: Send a scanning crew on board. I want every part of this ship checked.

OFFICER: Yes, sir.

VADER: I sense something... a presence I haven't felt since...

Vader turns quickly and exits the hangar.

 

[Captaindemotion]

'Since that episode with the lava I don't like to talk about?'

 

[the G-man]

I'm pretty sure that Darth being Luke's dad was the plan even during filming of the original film based on: (a) some comments that Guinness made about filming the "a young jedi named Darth Vader..." scene

Very interesting... can these comments be found anywhere?

I have no idea. This was something I read in a magazine (possibly Starlog) back in the 1980s.

 

[Set Harth]

'Since that episode with the lava I don't like to talk about?'

Pretty much. And to think, he still drinks coffee. Go figure.

 

[CaptMurdock]

The question still arises: how did Vader know his name was Skywalker?

Personal theory: after the DS' destruction and Vader managed to make it back to base, he decides to review all the info regarding how the DS could have been destroyed by using the technical schematics. He would have read the reports filed by the troopers who traced the droids to the jawas and from them to the Lars homestead. After a second's regret at the death of his stepbrother and stepsister-in-law, he noted that official records listed a third member of the household: a minor named Luke Skywalker...

...and then the penny drops.

 

[Mr Light]

In the comic Vader's Quest I believe he learns it interrogating a captured Rebel pilot.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^That's correct.

And whether or not you take the comic as canon, it's a fair bet that Vader would have his sources of information - informants, torture, bribery, blackmail etc. If there were three years between ANH and ESB, someone with his power and resources was bound to discover Luke's name, especially as the latter would have become something of an icon in rebellion circles for that feat.

 

[Gaith]

If there were three years between ANH and ESB

Six months, tops.

 

[Whofan]

The three years thing comes from the ESB novel, I think. ROTJ on the other hand, takes place roughly six months to a year after ESB.

 

[JediKnightButler]

The opening crawl to ESB, as well as the statement made by Vader shortly thereafter pretty clearly indicates that Vader has some sort of special interest in somebody named "Skywalker".
The question of whether he knows for certain that this "Skywalker" person might be his son and his later interactions with the Emperor is particularly interesting given what we know from the prequels. It's possible that, at least initially, he's curious about the presence of somebody running around using the name "Skywalker" but later discerns that this "Skywalker" person is actually his own son based on his contact with him on Bespin. Or it's possible he figures it out earlier when speaking with the Emperor and/or he had already figured it out and was feigning ignorance with the Emperor because he secretly wanted to overthrow him. Based on Steve Perry's "Shadows of the Empire", by the end of ESB, the Emperor's hold on Vader was weakening and Vader was thinking thoughts of rebellion, presumably by encouraging Luke to join him as he did on Bespin. I also remember too how in ROTJ Vader stated that the name "Anakin Skywalker" has no meaning for him and how Luke (rightly) pointed out that he's been "Darth Vader" for so long he's long that he forgot about his original identity of "Anakin Skywalker," which, of course, he rediscovers by the end of ROTJ. Could it be possible that initially he's buried his identity as Anakin Skywalker so far deep that he really doesn't connect the dots sooner and figure out that Luke is his son earlier? After all, based on ROTS, he knows that he *killed* Padme but he has no clue that she died AFTER giving birth and she was given the appearance of still being pregnant at her funeral/burial (which I'm almost positive he didn't attend).

 

[Captaindemotion]

^Vader said in ROTJ that the name Anakin 'has no meaning for him' but he still knew in ESB that he was Luke's father and he knew in ANH that Obi-Wan was his old master. I can't see him having forgotten his original identity altogether.

 

[JediKnightButler]

^Vader said in ROTJ that the name Anakin 'has no meaning for him' but he still knew in ESB that he was Luke's father and he knew in ANH that Obi-Wan was his old master. I can't see him having forgotten his original identity altogether.

You're right. I'm sure he didn't entirely forget his true identity but he had largely ceased to be "Anakin Skywalker" and became more "Darth Vader" just as Obi-Wan had said (his "certain point of view"). I think that by ESB Vader had indeed started putting the pieces together in regards to Luke's identity and relation to him. There is also a fairly dramatic change in Vader's character from the start of ESB- where he is killing officers left and right- to the end where he gives Admiral Piett a repreive after failing to capture the Falcon. Piett definitely looked like he expected to be "punished" for his failure.
One thing I've always wondered though is why Vader dueled Luke nearly to the death (and chopped off his arm) and only THEN gave him the big reveal about him being his father and suggesting that they form an alliance together against the Emperor? The only thing I've been able to come up with is that he wanted to test him first and/or Luke worked him up enough that he was so blinded by rage that he forgot about what he was trying to do (i.e. recruit him). I would've thought he would've rather gave Luke the big sit-down first and duel him if necessary. Even after losing him at Bespin, he hadn't given up the possibility of converting Luke and certainly didn't want to see him killed by Xixor ("Shadows of the Empire").