Dark Mirror

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Hoshi_Mayweather, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    there was a reference to the Eugenics Wars in DM, the supermen won, but (IIRC) dissolved into in-fighting and were overthrown.
     
  2. Semah

    Semah Commander Red Shirt

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    And in that Universe, Earth bacame far more expansionist and paranoid because of that and basically wiped out or enslaved all races they came across.
     
  3. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since "Parallels" canonized, for want of a better term, the notion of an infinitely branching multiverse, I like to think that the Dark Mirror universe still exists.

    I also like to think that what the Enterprise did with the superstrings to get back to their own universe "broke" the connection between "our" universe and the Mirror Universe, allowing "Crossover"'s Mirror Universe to take its place in harmonic convergence with "our" universe.

    Oh, it's completely nonsensical technobabble I've just spouted, but I like it. ;)
     
  4. WillsBabe

    WillsBabe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've lost count the number of times I've read this novel. I love it. While I wish they'd made a MU TNG, this kinda makes up for the fact they didn't.
     
  5. aelius

    aelius Commander Red Shirt

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    I loved Dark Mirror. I also wish they had done a MU TNG. Then we probably would have had something similar to Dark Mirror rather than the fallen Terran Empire ruled over by the Alliance.
     
  6. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I take it you're not a fan of the DS9 MU storyline.
     
  7. aelius

    aelius Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, I enjoyed the DS9 MU eps. I just wouldn't have minded seeing the evil Terran Empire go forward. I like the idea of watching the regular cast be evil. In the DS9 MU they were somewhat scummy freedom fighters. Of course I loved the MU Garak. He was just so smarmy.
    Can you imagine seeing evil Sisko and company or evil Picard and crew plotting and scheming about conquering this or that. That would have been great.
     
  8. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell hi hungry i'm dad Premium Member

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    I really enjoyed Dark Mirror and wish that storyline had been continued. The early DS9 MU eps were good, but I think Dark Mirror's version had more potential. I wonder if "Crossover" might have been more interesting with a cruel Terran Empire having conquered Bajor from the relatively benevolent Cardassians. Having Kira come face-to-face with a broken, subjugated version of herself could have been a lot more interesting than the vampy Intendant.

    Going a bit further, I always thought Seven's outlandish theories in "The Voyager Conspiracy" would have been plausible... in the mirror universe. :lol:
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But Kira spent most of her life subjugated. The character wouldn't be much different then. Despite the caricature that Intendant Kira became, what was interesting about her interaction with Major Kira in "Crossover" was that she essentially represented everything Kira had wished for all her life -- a strong, free, powerful Bajor. And yet despite that, she turned out to be someone Kira wouldn't want to emulate. A "be careful what you wish for" sort of deal.
     
  10. rfmcdpei

    rfmcdpei Captain Captain

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    Security Officer Deanna Troi was an amazing character, and I think that she would have translated well to the smell screen.

    With some friends, a couple of weeks ago I watched the sixth-season episode where Troi is forced to pose as a Tal Sh'iar agent ("Clearly, your father was a traitor."). I mourned, just a little bit, for the episode that never got made.

    Dark Mirror's impact for me lay in the way that it made so many could-be possibilities of TNG a reality--Picard and Beverly are a couple! and so are Riker and Troi! and Troi's a stronger telepath, confident in her abilities! and Wesley's a go-getter!--and make them go so horribly wrong.
     
  11. Hoshi_Mayweather

    Hoshi_Mayweather Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, Beverly, being the 'Captain's Woman' didn't have a stable relationship with muPicard, whom she mentions has wandering eyes for pretty young Ensigns. (Being that Beverly is the medical doctor, she makes it clear that if you get on her bad side...it is hoped that you don't have a sickness while she is on duty).

    Troi, as much heat as she gets from TNG fans, is a 'badass' in this book. She senses everything, and doesn't have any problem with getting into your dreams, thoughts, what have you; and the more a person is afraid, the more she likes it!

    She was pretty much one of, if not the powerful person on the ship.

    Troi has Riker because she chooses to. She even makes propositions to RUPicard somewhere in the novel; and I'm not sure whether or not she make a proposition to Geordi....(I do know she tortures him).

    All in all, an interesting group of characters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  12. Titan Designer

    Titan Designer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That book is the reason I created so many of my Dark Mirror Characters and Starships. Although
    I haven't stuck 100% to the book, it still is the foundation to my creations.

    Don't get me wrong I like the stories in the Ds9 Mirror Unicerse, but I would of loved to see this universe explored a little more.
     
  13. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Dark Mirror was one of my first Trek novels and is among my favourites. I also have been inspired to create my own Mirror Universe because of it...wasn't a huge fan of the changes that Deep Space Nine made with the MU as I thought Dark Mirror did a great job of continuing the themes of "Mirror, Mirror". Also a thought on how long the Mirror Universe has lasted. I have always been of the opinion that the Mirror Universe is a global continuation of the Roman Empire. At some point during its history there was a unification war of somesort which established an Emperor, then the Imperial Senate was created in place of a UN or Federation Council, Starfleet was created to be their military space branch. They've basically taken the legacy of the Roman Empire and transformed it globally and incorperated technlogical advances into it.

    Btw...I agree that it would have made an excellent TNG episode. I think that the book took place during the middle of season four or begining of season five IIRC so it would be interesting to see the characters portray themselves as Evil. Although I didn't quite like the description of the ISS Enterrise D's bridge...seemed too grandiose even for the Mirror Universe.
     
  14. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell hi hungry i'm dad Premium Member

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    But our Kira was never really subjugated. She was a freedom fighter all her life. The Terran Empire, as depicted in Dark Mirror, seems to me like it would have been a lot more cruel than even the worst of "our" Cardassians.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There is a huge difference between being a freedom fighter and being free. Hell yes, she was subjugated. She grew up in a world ruled by people who deprived her whole species of rights and dignity. She lived under constant threat to her life, safety, bodily integrity, etc. She saw friends and fellow members of her community tortured, starved, raped, killed. She had her own mother forcibly taken from her when she was a small child and never saw her again. Even though she had the will to fight, that hardly means she wasn't psychologically and physically oppressed to a horrific degree.

    But that's just a difference of degree. It's more interesting to see Kira faced with someone whose life circumstances were the diametric opposite of her own, who represented everything Kira aspired to. That was what gave the Intendant nuance in her first appearance that was squandered later on: the fact that she, and her Bajor, had qualities that Kira (our viewpoint character for those portions of the episode) could admire and be drawn to.
     
  16. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

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    I was gonna respond to Robert Maxwell, but I can't improve on this. So, uh, what he said.


    Yeah, I was really disappointed that future MU episodes only had Sisko crossing over. (Well, and Quark and Rom and Zek, but I try not to think about "The Emperor's New Cloak.") I wish that Kira and O'Brien had beamed over with Sisko when Jake was kidnapped in "Shattered Mirror."
     
  17. Deano2099

    Deano2099 Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, but in the real universe, she always fought and didn't give up. She held onto the notion that she would one day be free.
    I figured Robert was suggesting that it would be interesting to have seen a Kira who, under the harsher by degrees subjugation of the Terran Empire, was broken. A Kira that gave up and abandoned the fight.
     
  18. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not usually a big Duane fan, but I enjoyed Dark Mirror. The DS9 Mirror Universe episodes and the introduction of the pah wraiths are the only two things I really dislike about DS9.

    I liked the Dark Mirror set up much better and I have always wished that DS9 had gone with something more in tune with that version.
     
  19. Saratoga NX-3842

    Saratoga NX-3842 Supreme Overlord of the Universe

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    "Security Officer Deanna Troi was an amazing character, and I think that she would have translated well to the smell screen."


    I bet she smells good too. mmm....
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, I got that. But my point is that it's still a comparatively minor difference; it could just as easily been a story about Kira dealing with a fellow Bajoran who gave up, and we saw stories like that more than once when she dealt with collaborators, even including her own mother. If you're going to an alternate history, there's no point in giving Bajor a history that's the same as its main-timeline one except that the identity of the oppressors is different. The point isn't just that Kira is different in the MU, it's that she's different because Bajor is different, because it's prosperous and powerful and respected rather than broken and oppressed and impoverished. That was a fascinating idea that I wish had been explored more -- the idea that the MU Bajor was a place that "our" Bajorans would envy, that the MU was actually better for them even while it was worse for humans.