A Vulcan and a Klingon? I don't agree on this one.
Poll Crusher or Pulaski?
- Thread starter Akiraprise
- Start date
Could've been, yeah. Selar would make sense a lot of sense. That might have been really interesting to see.
I used to dislike Pulaski, but the character has really grown on me over time, though. Ultimately though, I prefer Crusher. A lot of that is to do with Gates McFadden who makes an art out of making a lot out of a little.
This is the part I disagere on. I would have completely been cool with Selar becoming the new doctor, and exploring things like supression of emotion or the balance of emotion and logic needed to care for patients, or decide the balance of risk-taking. Her telepahtic abilities could have been interesting to see as a doctor. I love Pulaski, but I would have been okay with this as well.
I find McFadden to be a medicore, one note actress that elevated nothing; she comes across with a superiority complex or attitude at times, and I really don't buy her as a super caring individual; she seems to be written however they need her to act in any given moment. She was best in S1 when they were still playing games with her history with Picard and Jack, but after she comes back in S3, she's pretty terrible IMO.
A Vulcan and a Klingon? I don't agree on this one.
i kind of see it - the split between the two cultures, fighting to find a balance between the two halves of his identity, trying to be more Vulcan/Klingon then the other Vulcan/Klingon's around him.
I wonder what would have happened if they had broken typecasting, and sent Worf to engineering instead of the Cool Blind Pilot, and kept Tasha alive and on the bridge.
A Vulcan and a Klingon? I don't agree on this one.
Spock tries to suppress his emotions. Data doesn't have them in the first place and it's his heart's desire to feel them.
Spock is quite content with his outsider status. Data wants to be like everybody else.
Spock has a wry, knowing sense of humour. Data is hopeless at telling jokes.
Folks say Data is like Spock, because both characters have a unique perspective when it comes to emotions, but that perspective is quite different.
As Phoenix said above, both Spock and Worf are outsiders within the crew they work alongside, yet also outsiders as far as their own peoples are concerned. Like Spock, Worf is the odd man out among the crew and his own species.
The perpetually at-odds man in the middle.
Data was something new. He still is, really. I think he’s unique as far as Star Trek characters go.
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They also both get all of the oh, shit it's an alien! gags and all of the its because of his different biology plots.
Odo is a Spock.
Worf is an Odo. Remember that episode where they discussed how to make people feel less welcome?
Worf and Odo. Odo is a Worf, Worf is an Odo and as Odo is a Spock, then so Worf must also be a Spock. QED.
Data is not a Worf and as such cannot be a Spock, as Worf is a Spock and Data is not a Worf.
Don’t post when high.
Worf is an Odo. Remember that episode where they discussed how to make people feel less welcome?
Worf and Odo. Odo is a Worf, Worf is an Odo and as Odo is a Spock, then so Worf must also be a Spock. QED.
Data is not a Worf and as such cannot be a Spock, as Worf is a Spock and Data is not a Worf.
Don’t post when high.
I agree, Data is not like Spock.
A very special character. Data is a super-powered innocent. I also think sometimes that he feels more emotions than he actually claims to.
Data is indeed a special and wondrous character. He is also my favorite TNG character. He holds a very special place in my heart.
I don’t know if he’s my favourite. He’s one of my favourites.
He says he’s incapable of feeling things, but I don’t think he’s telling the truth.
Deep Rivers Run Quiet.
He says he’s incapable of feeling things, but I don’t think he’s telling the truth.
Deep Rivers Run Quiet.
A Vulcan and a Klingon? I don't agree on this one.
Your mind…
… Is easily changed.
It's probably more accurate that what Soong said to Data is true in "Brothers".
"You'll grieve... in your own way."
Replace grieve with any other emotion and I think this is true of Data.
So Data is more like someone with autism or on the spectrum, in a way. (Not trying to open a can of worms, and not educated enough to go farther. Just a random thought. He feels things differently, and doesn't quite understand things, even if he understands the underlying structure.)
His similarity with Spock begins and ends with "analyzes things computationally and not with emotion:
His similarity with Spock begins and ends with "analyzes things computationally and not with emotion:
TNG co-opted all that Spock represented in TOS & divided it among Data, Worf & Troi, just as they divided the quintessential qualities of the TOS leading man between Riker & Picard, thereby taking what worked on a show that focused primarily on only 3 characters, & spread things out more usably to a larger, more ensemble geared cast IMHO.
Eh, … kind of?
I couldn’t say I totally disagree… but was that deliberate?
Hrmmm. Who’s the McCoy? Where do Wes, Yar or LaForge fit into that?
I think what’s clear from everyone’s experience working with Gene at the time was that everything be new.
I know all that went out of the window pretty quickly, but at the start… when planning out characters… I think he wanted everything to be new.
I think a lot of the Data/Spock idea is rooted in his brief encounter with McCoy in Farpoint.
I couldn’t say I totally disagree… but was that deliberate?
Hrmmm. Who’s the McCoy? Where do Wes, Yar or LaForge fit into that?
I think what’s clear from everyone’s experience working with Gene at the time was that everything be new.
I know all that went out of the window pretty quickly, but at the start… when planning out characters… I think he wanted everything to be new.
I think a lot of the Data/Spock idea is rooted in his brief encounter with McCoy in Farpoint.
As I see it, there were certain aspects of Star Trek that were locked in. Having someone who represented an alien culture to explore from within the recurring cast was a big one. That's one of the things Spock represented, that Worf assumed. TOS explored the alien culture of Vulcans & TNG did so with Klingons. Also, it allowed for the continued premise of seeing the ever evolving, progressive Starfleet continue to take in unique individuals.
2nd, Having someone aboard who, in sci-fi fashion, would represent an alien ability we could explore, & also make use of in the narrative, was another aspect. Spock also carried this weight as a telepath, which Troi is, in her own way, endowed with, with an added bonus of more alien culture to explore. (To a much lesser extent)
Data, like Spock, represented a way of thinking & being that was antithetical to humanity, which has always been a hallmark of Star Trek, telling human stories through a lens that uses nonhuman behavior to frame it. A character who "doesn't get" humanity is part & parcel of Trek's goal of using the vehicle to talk about humanity objectively.
Plus, TNG's own unique offering was to incorporate the sci-fi tech INTO the cast, by having Data be an android & unique new lifeform. It's also where Laforge comes in, having a disability that's made super-abled through science.
There really didn't need to be a McCoy influence on TNG. His presence was mainly a human counterpoint to the lead (which is why Pike had one just like him, a confidant) & TNG already took the lead of the show (Kirk) & parsed out his qualities. Picard would stand for our integrity & the angels of our better nature bit, & Riker standing in for the more roguish, base, every man traits. So that bifurcated dynamic can be used AS that counterpoint.
Riker even became more of that as the show went on. He IS standing in for McCoy's contribution a lot. I think yes. Some of this was deliberate. While Gene wanted everything to be new, there's still a recipe to follow.
You'll note that a lot of the other superfluous characters fell away in the early days, Yar, Pulaski, Beverly, who they did bring back, but never really found much footing in being anything but a job function... doctor, mother, unrequited romantic crush etc... not much that really adds to the recipe, on a human level, accept mother of Wes... who BTW was Gene's addition. He's there to represent Gene, the child's eye through which this is all meant to be seen, which is hilariously informative that he's arguably the most disliked lol
This is all just my interpretation however.
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Will always be Crusher for me. I know Pulaski's character development made her a better character and just better overall, but I still can't get past that initial bias. 
On my most recent rewatch, the more I see of Crusher, the more I dislike her. Before, i just appreciated Pulaski more, or liked the TOSness, or whatever, but now that I'm watching, paying attention as an adult, I find Bev more and more unlikeable the longer I watch. TNG gets steadily more unlikeable as it goes along in general.
I'm a bit surprised to read lots of people saying Pulaski was a more "developed" character than Crusher. She had the small arc about learning to not be a dick to Data, and we know she had a fling with Riker's Dad, but this isn't really character development. Crusher had longer running arcs with Picard and with Wesley.
I don't think Crusher was significantly less developed than Geordi for example. What did we know about him in AGT that we didn't in EaF? His family was a one and done episode. He was rubbish with girls. He was blind. That was basically it. He was there to do the technobabble, be an occasional plot device and be Data's sidekick. And he's great at it!
I think by design the Doctor character is harder to work into Star Trek stories than an engineer. Crusher got "mom" stories initially and then when that was no longer an option the writers struggled to give her much else to do. Gates was also missing for one season and unavailable for much of the fourth and early fifth seasons.
Both were sidelined in the movies and finally got something more substantial in ST: Picard.
I think this is basically it. Diana Muldaur is undoubtedly a TV pro and had a screen presence that Gates did not. She was always more interesting to watch and elevated the very thin character that existed on the page.
The other factor is that she was the only character on the cast who was allowed - and designed - to cause trouble and tension among the crew. It was before Roddenberry's Box got rigidly enforced by Berman and Piller. She stands out because she's different, but I don't think her character is actually any more substantial than any of the others in early TNG.
I don't think Crusher was significantly less developed than Geordi for example. What did we know about him in AGT that we didn't in EaF? His family was a one and done episode. He was rubbish with girls. He was blind. That was basically it. He was there to do the technobabble, be an occasional plot device and be Data's sidekick. And he's great at it!
I think by design the Doctor character is harder to work into Star Trek stories than an engineer. Crusher got "mom" stories initially and then when that was no longer an option the writers struggled to give her much else to do. Gates was also missing for one season and unavailable for much of the fourth and early fifth seasons.
Both were sidelined in the movies and finally got something more substantial in ST: Picard.
I think this is basically it. Diana Muldaur is undoubtedly a TV pro and had a screen presence that Gates did not. She was always more interesting to watch and elevated the very thin character that existed on the page.
The other factor is that she was the only character on the cast who was allowed - and designed - to cause trouble and tension among the crew. It was before Roddenberry's Box got rigidly enforced by Berman and Piller. She stands out because she's different, but I don't think her character is actually any more substantial than any of the others in early TNG.
