Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

[Guy Gardener]

They haven't mapped the new multiverse.

From memory, some one on Supergirl remembers "where" a bunch of the other earths are supposed to be... And they are not, becuase the all new all different earths that are elsewhere, are somewhere else.

 

[Nerys Myk]

We know that, but apparently the characters don't, since on Supergirl they're talking as if there's only one Earth left. Which is weird.

I haven't seen the Sunday shows yet, but I don't think anyone is aware of the existence of the Earths mentioned by the Spectiver at the end of Crisis.

 

[Christopher]

I haven't seen the Sunday shows yet, but I don't think anyone is aware of the existence of the Earths mentioned by the Spectiver at the end of Crisis.

That seems to be what they're going with, but they should be aware, because we've seen before that they have the technology to detect other universes. They were using it routinely on the Waverider during Crisis, and before that we've seen Cisco, Jay Garrick, and use it routinely on The Flash (surely the ability to detect other universes is required for the extrapolators to work, since they have to have some way to set the destination coordinates), and early in Arrow this season we saw that even a random, disreputable Earth-1 scientist with no connection to the superhero community was able to confirm to Laurel that Earth-2 no longer existed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That seems to be what they're going with, but they should be aware, because we've seen before that they have the technology to detect other universes. They were using it routinely on the Waverider during Crisis, and before that we've seen Cisco, Jay Garrick, and use it routinely on The Flash (surely the ability to detect other universes is required for the extrapolators to work, since they have to have some way to set the destination coordinates), and early in Arrow this season we saw that even a random, disreputable Earth-1 scientist with no connection to the superhero community was able to confirm to Laurel that Earth-2 no longer existed.

Seems to be a wait and see situation, with Flash or Legends being the logical place to see it.

 

[Noname Given]

Watching the Batwoman and Supergirl Crisis aftermath, I see there are different versions of people from the other Earths of the Multiverse, like the Brainiacs. Even Beth now lives as a separate entity. Only certain Earths have gotten fused together, so the Multiverse is intact.

Considering they showed the Multiverse to the audience at the end of Crisis; of course it's intact. That said, it's the characters on Earth Prime who believe (inaccurately), that the Multiverse no longer exists: and that their Earth (Earth Prime) is the one and only Earth.

I'm sure over the run of the rest of the season, they'll come to find out that a Multiverse actually does still exist. (And if they don't learn about it by the end of the season, they will at some point over the rest of the Arrowverse's run).

 

[Guy Gardener]

The multiverse is not intact.

It's been replaced by a new Multiverse.

I'm wondering if there's been a fuck up, or if Doom Patrol and Titans are now in different universes, and have no experience of each other?

 

[dahj]

I'm wondering if there's been a fuck up, of if Doom Patrol and Titans are now in different universes, and have no experience of each other?

Doom Patrol and Titans were in different universes pre-Crisis as well.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm wondering if there's been a fuck up, of if Doom Patrol and Titans are now in different universes, and have no experience of each other?

The Doom Patrol and Titans TV series were never connected despite sharing actors.

 

[Christopher]

Doom Patrol and Titans were in different universes pre-Crisis as well.

Right. The Doom Patrol show differed significantly from the version in the backdoor-pilot episode of Titans, so they never quite fit together. Presumably the Doom Patrol that lives on the Titans' world Earth-9 are the doppelgangers of the Doom Patrol from Earth-21.

 

[StCoop]

Some very interesting photos released from the last episode of Arrow. Look like Oliver brought back his mother and (half) sister.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Doom Patrol and Titans TV series were never connected despite sharing actors.

If shuffling actors, means shuffling worlds, then changing the Astra actors in Supergirl means that we switched watching Earth's with Supergirl midway through for some reason, and both Earths continued to call themselves 38... Barry turned up in season one episode 18, but they probably didn't name her Earth till next year. Maybe year one of Supergirl was set on Earth 84?

 

[DigificWriter]

If shuffling actors, means shuffling worlds, then changing the Astra actors in Supergirl means that we switched watching Earth's with Supergirl midway through for some reason, and both Earths continued to call themselves 38... Barry turned up in season one episode 18, but they probably didn't name her Earth till next year. Maybe year one of Supergirl was set on Earth 84?

The two series were never connected because Doom Patrol showrunner Jeremy Carver developed the series in a way that disregarded and was incompatible with the "Doom Patrol" episode of Titans, which is something we learned shortly before the Doom Patrol Series premiered thanks to actress April Bowlby and that was confirmed by Jeremy Carver himself, as well as by Sarah Schecter, a couple of days following the series' launch.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Has any series ever been exactly as it was in the backdoor pilot?* People used to just roll with this but now in addition to "Word of God" it's conveniently actually canon.







* rhetorical question, I'm sure they have...

 

[Mage]

So, finally saw the last two episodes..... It feels as if the fourth episode was the actual conclusion of Crisis, with episode 5 setting the new status quo and watching them back to back that felt weird. I would have been totally ok with a bit more build up to the final fight, and the Monitor actually being dead then and there, with about 5 minutes of everyone realizing what happened and have that as a cliffhanger for the shows themselves to resolve.

Now, a few question..... The round table scene.... was to imply the Justice League, or something else?
Who's Gleek?
I assume we can now count Black Lightning as 100% part of the Arrowverse?

 

[Romulan_spy]

Now, a few question..... The round table scene.... was to imply the Justice League, or something else?

Yes, it was a JL reference. And with the characters all being on the same earth now, with a special HQ for them to meet, it will be easier for them to team up against big threats. So it is definitely setting up more JL style crossovers.

Who's Gleek?

A blue monkey apparently from the Super Friends cartoon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleek_(Super_Friends)

 

[Christopher]

So, finally saw the last two episodes..... It feels as if the fourth episode was the actual conclusion of Crisis, with episode 5 setting the new status quo and watching them back to back that felt weird.

The comics were like that too -- the Spectre/Anti-Monitor fight that rebooted the universe was at the end of issue 10, and the last 2 issues were the climax on the recreated, merged Earth.

I assume we can now count Black Lightning as 100% part of the Arrowverse?

Evidently, yes.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Considering they showed the Multiverse to the audience at the end of Crisis; of course it's intact. That said, it's the characters on Earth Prime who believe (inaccurately), that the Multiverse no longer exists: and that their Earth (Earth Prime) is the one and only Earth.

I'm sure over the run of the rest of the season, they'll come to find out that a Multiverse actually does still exist. (And if they don't learn about it by the end of the season, they will at some point over the rest of the Arrowverse's run).

Yes, it seems the Paragons mistakenly believe no multiverse exists at all, but things are so screwed up (alternate versions of existing people, some--like Lena--knowing what happened despite not receiving the J'onn treatment, etc.) that it just seems like they were led to believe something not entirely true, or misunderstood it. I can see the showrunners allowing the series to slowly return to their former status (or some form of it) after a mild Zero Hour type of crossover.

A blue monkey apparently from the Super Friends cartoon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleek_(Super_Friends)

Oh, the horror. Hanna-Barbera horror. *shudders*

 

[JD]

You're taking that too literally. A "multiverse" isn't a thing that really exists outside of stories, it's just a plot device used within certain stories. Yes, for the purposes of Crisis, all other DC screen productions are part of the Arrow-multiverse. But that in no way requires any other DC production to agree with that, because it's all just pretend for the sake of telling stories, and different storytellers can pretend different things. The 2003 CG-animated Spider-Man TV series on MTV was written as a direct sequel to the first Sam Raimi Spidey film, but the Raimi sequels totally ignored it (for one thing, it killed off Curt Connors in its first episode). Much as Superman Returns ignored every movie after Superman II, Terminator: Dark Fate ignored every movie after T2, Dallas ignored an entire season of itself, etc. Fiction is not binding. What one story says can be freely ignored by later stories, even those purporting to be in the same reality.

So it would be unrealistic to expect any other DC production to acknowledge the storytelling conceits of the Arrowverse, even in cases where the actors actually appeared in Crisis. There are countless examples of the same actor appearing as the same character in mutually incompatible continuities -- just off the top of my head, Don Adams reprised Maxwell Smart in at least two, probably three contradictory sequels to Get Smart (the feature film The Nude Bomb, the TV-movie revival, and the short-lived sequel sitcom). So, for instance, there'd be absolutely nothing to prevent Ezra Miller's Barry from saying in the Flashpoint movie that he's never met another incarnation of himself and got the idea for the name "Flash" in a totally different way than we saw here. It's all just pretend, after all. What the TV show pretended won't necessarily be what any other story pretends.




Of course they would. There have been countless examples throughout film and TV history of characters appearing on a different show or film without any implication that they shared a universe. Spock showing up on Carol Burnett. Lurch and Colonel Klink popping out of windows on Batman. The Penguin appearing in turn on The Monkees. Kevin McCarthy reprising his Invasion of the Body Snatchers character for a gag scene in the 1978 remake and again in Looney Tunes: Back in Action. Mulder & Scully appearing on The Simpsons. Detective Munch appearing everywhere.

I am aware of this, I've been these watching these kinds of movies and TV shows my whole life. But it doesn't change the fact that as of right now, the Arrowverse shows consider the other shows and movies shows part of it's multiverse.
Although this is a different situation since in this case there are these productions are all from the same companies, and in several cases the same producers, so there are at least a few people involved in both productions who are aware of what's going on.

Crossovers like that are about publicity, not continuity. Movie and TV studio execs couldn't care less whether two stories are consistent with each other, as long as people watch them. Ezra Miller showing up in Crisis is basically a product placement for the Flash movie. If it gets people to buy tickets, it's done its job.

Obviously.

There are no "facts" in fiction. There is only the premise of a given story. Crisis pretended that all those other universes were part of the multiverse. That served the needs of that particular story, because they needed to show a larger multiverse than just the CW shows and it made it more engaging if the universes were familiar. That doesn't mean they'll honor it in later stories. Heck, they said in Crisis on Earth-X that there were only 53 Earths, but they threw that "fact" out the window before very long at all.

I do understand what fiction is, I'm not a complete moron.

Now, I do get where you're coming from. It would be fun if at least some other DC productions decided to pick up on the concept the Arrowverse has established and play more with the idea of a shared universe. Heck, I'd love to see Constantine show up in a Lucifer episode and get an explanation of Lucifer's "I owe you for Maze." But it'll only happen if the creators of a given show or movie decide they want to use the idea. It's not like it's some law that will be perpetually binding on all future productions. Even the Arrowverse isn't rigidly bound by its past continuity (53 Earths...), so why should anything else be?

Once again, I am aware of how TV and movies work, which is why I specified several times in my posts that was just talking about the Arrowverse shows.

 

[Noname Given]

Yes, it seems the Paragons mistakenly believe no multiverse exists at all, but things are so screwed up (alternate versions of existing people, some--like Lena--knowing what happened despite not receiving the J'onn treatment, etc.) that it just seems like they were led to believe something not entirely true, or misunderstood it. I can see the showrunners allowing the series to slowly return to their former status (or some form of it) after a mild Zero Hour type of crossover.

WRT Lena - Lex states that he somehow made a deal with the Monitor where Lena's memories would be intact. Their mother even says something to the effect that (unlike Lena) Lex just told her everything. plus, it was never stated or inferred that the Paragons received any extra knowledge about the Universe/Multiverse; they just retained their memories of everything before and during the Crisis.

The only thing that seems a bit wonky is Jonn being able to restore the individual memories completely as to what happened before and during the Crisis. To do it the way they have been, it would imply Jonn completely read the mind of everyone involved during the Crisis (even the parts he wasn't involved in) and was able to separate them and restore them completely. <---- That's one hell of a telepathic ability even for Jonn. (But hey, we're talking a comic book universe /multiverse where they've had Superman able to push the entire Earth with no major ill effects to the Planet in the act. )

 

[USS Firefly]

Just saw the last two episode, I love the breaking the fourth wall jokes

So the Smallville earth is still gone or unknown?

And now I really want a Routh Superman movie/show.