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Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

Did part 2 telegraph how the Crisis crossover will end? Our superheroes will defeat the anti-Monitor and use the Book of Destiny to restore the multiverse, at least in part. And the Book of Destiny will probably be the macguffin for resetting the shows: all the changes post-Crisis will be attributed to the Book of Destiny.
 
Clegg Nog said:
In fact, by the end, you could argue Welling had a greater grasp and understanding (and thus respect and appreciation) for his power than any other on-screen version of the character because he had to fight so hard to "earn" it.
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I didn't see it as fighting to earn his power -- more like stubbornly resisting his responsibility. It wasn't until season 8 that he really accepted his power and chose to become a superhero, and even then he went about it pretty gradually. It was more something he had to be talked into than something he strove for. So I don't find it the least bit implausible that he gave it up.

Anyway, it's been a decade since we last saw him. A person's priorities can change in a decade, especially if parenthood comes into the picture.

Hmm... Earth-38's Superman was willing to leave Earth to start a family because he trusted Supergirl to keep it safe. What was the status of Smallville's Supergirl at the end of the series? Or in the "Season 11" comics? As far as I know, she was still around, so maybe that Clark made his choice for a similar reason.


Abbey Chrimble said:
I just take the Routh Superman as a broad stroke who's supposed to represent the Superman Returns version and the Reeve films version (now with elements of Kingdom Come mixed in), without getting nitpicky about how that works continuity-wise.
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Well, the Returns version was itself a broad-strokes approximation of the Reeve version, so I have no problem accepting this one as the same character Routh played before. And it's been 13 years since SR, which is plenty of time for the KC-like events to happen in the interim (along with the Superman III-like events of going nuts and fighting himself). After all, SR was the only story we've previously seen in that continuity, so there's plenty of room in that reality for everything established here to have existed/occurred there.

Well, I suppose one discrepancy could be the appearance of the Daily Planet building. Presumably the interior was rebuilt after the Joker attack (I think they redressed the CatCo sets), but did the exterior, or the cityscape beyond, look anything like the one from SR? Well, any difference could be chalked up to artistic license and available digital assets.
 
Christopher said:
I'm not surprised that Smallville's Clark gave up his powers. It's an amusing meta-commentary on Welling's resistance to donning the cape, but it also works as a valid tribute, because his version was always more about being farmboy Clark Kent, so this was true to what his show was, rather than what we might've wished it could become. And it tied into the overall theme of Superman maturing and having a family. Earth-38 Superman got to have a family with Lois by going to Argo where he temporarily gave up his powers. Smallville Superman didn't have that option, so he chose to give up his powers more permanently in order to have "the girls" with his Lois. (And why not? His world had a ton of other superheroes predating him, so it's not like he was the only guy who could do the job.) And even though Earth-96 Superman lost his Lois and his whole Daily Planet family to the Joker's attack, he still has his son to be proud of.
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In the comics, how did they deal with Lois' pregnancy? In the Arrowverse, Lois only went to Argo for HER safety. Clark didn't have to give up his powers. He just of course went with his wife. The day Jonathan was born, Lois and Clark could have returned to Earth.

Having the family is just as simple as saying that Lois was able to give birth. If you think about it, Jason was Routh Superman's son, and Lois didn't go to Argo. And Superman wasn't even around.

So there's really no reason that Clark needed to give up his powers to have a family.

There is no reason for Superman not to be able to have a family and be Superman. In fact, it adds to what he's fighting for. I see it as no different than Superman having his adopted parents alive after Byrne rebooted. It doesn't take anything away--it adds to the mythos.

Christopher said:
As for the rest, I'm not surprised that they're already talking about ways to undo the losses of Part 1. They've brought Oliver's body back to life, if not yet his soul, and Kara is talking about using the Book of Destiny to restore Earth-38 and the others. I think it's a safe bet at this point that at least some of the worlds will be restored, though probably with some changes.
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If they just undo it without any consequence, then what is the point of this Crisis? I agree with others that yes, most Earths should be restored as if nothing happened -- especially other shows, but I'd like to see some legit changes in the main Arrowverse shows. Give the Crisis meaning.

Christopher said:
I just wish they hadn't labeled the Earths of the alternate Jennifers as "Earth 1" and "Earth 2," because they clearly weren't the same as the mainstream Earth-1 and Earth-2. I mean, obviously in the latter case, since Earth-2 was destroyed weeks ago. But the "Gen: Earth 1" portrayed here can't be the Earth-1 we know. It's an Earth where Black Lightning existed as a meta decades before the first metas were publicly known on Earth-1, and it's an Earth where there's an oppressive "High Council" apparently running things in the US.
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It was extremely confusing and made no sense.

Christopher said:
And there's no reason that shouldn't be "easy" to accept. After all, every alternate version of Superman has some of the same events occurring at different times -- Krypton exploding, Jor-El sending his infant son to Earth, Clark getting a job at the Planet and meeting Lois, etc. So there's no reason they couldn't have more specific parallels too.

Besides, treating SR as a direct sequel to Superman II requires ignoring Superman III -- and Routh-Superman said here "This is the second time I went nuts and fought myself," so clearly something like Superman III happened in his version of reality. His past is similar to the Reeve films, but not identical.
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This is along the lines as to what I'm saying. Maybe this is a similar, but slightly different Earth than the Reeve films. Makes me wonder what might have been if Reeve didn't have his accident. A man like that would have stayed in shape and who knows? Maybe they get him to play the older Superman.

Abbey Chrimble said:
The plagues also included Ron Troupe, who was introduced in the comics in the '90s.

I just take the Routh Superman as a broad stroke who's supposed to represent the Superman Returns version and the Reeve films version (now with elements of Kingdom Come mixed in), without getting nitpicky about how that works continuity-wise.
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I think if you take this as a separate Earth than the Reeve films, it's much more palatable. THAT Superman doesn't deserve to become Kingdom Come Superman.
 
Christopher said:
Hmm... Earth-38's Superman was willing to leave Earth to start a family because he trusted Supergirl to keep it safe. What was the status of Smallville's Supergirl at the end of the series? Or in the "Season 11" comics? As far as I know, she was still around, so maybe that Clark made his choice for a similar reason.
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That was out of character for Superman to leave the Earth like that. Having faith in Supergirl is NOT out of character, but him leaving is, at least permanently. He would also make it quite clear that he would be back in a heartbeat if the threat required it. It's not out of character for him to be with Lois temporarily, but he would be back on Earth as soon as Jonathan and Lois were safe.

Likewise, I don't feel Smallville's Supergirl would make a difference. Even if she is every bit the hero Kara38 is, it doesn't matter. There could be an entire Justice League on Smallville Earth, but it will always need a Superman.

Romulan_spy said:
Did part 2 telegraph how the Crisis crossover will end? Our superheroes will defeat the anti-Monitor and use the Book of Destiny to restore the multiverse, at least in part. And the Book of Destiny will probably be the macguffin for resetting the shows: all the changes post-Crisis will be attributed to the Book of Destiny.
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I hope not. It's too convenient. Too easy.
 
The Virgin Krampus said:
the Bruce Timm Batman Animated Series theme.
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That was the 1989 movie theme. Though I think BTAS did use it for a bit.

The Virgin Krampus said:
so Kevin Conroy's Batman on Earth 96 went over my head.
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Conroy’s Batman was on Earth-99. And he isn’t an exact copy of KC Batman, as that Batman didn’t kill Superman.


Also, Earth-99 Batman apparently drove the 1989 bat mobile
https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/1204238006560813057?s=21
 
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The multiverse survives but the destroyed Earths stay destroyed.

So, is Earth 1 going to have a population of ten billion, or will the resolution somehow merge populations and histories as in the original story?
 
Earth-99 is a reference to Batman Beyond, while 96 is a reference to Kingdom Come. I don’t get what the Smallville number represents.
As for Smallville, he’s always losing his powers so I doubt that’s the end of his Superman reign. Perhaps he’ll be back for Infinite or Final Crisis.
 
Tuskin38 said:
That was the 1989 movie theme. Though I think BTAS did use it for a bit.
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Yeah, B:TAS used an arrangement of the Elfman movie theme as its main title theme, and a small number of early episodes also quoted it as incidental music in the occasional Batman action scene.

Still, the arrangement of the cue over the Wayne Manor arrival shot did have a Shirley Walker/BTAS-ish sound to it.
 
I forgot Birds of Prey we’re going to be in this. It is a rather obscure show though.
 
So last month when people were snooping around the filming locations, there was a Gotham newspaper prop with Michael Keaton’s face on it. That hasn’t showed up yet. Maybe they couldn’t get his likeness rights to actually show on screen?

Maybe that’s who Guggenheim was talking about in that interview?
 
Tuskin38 said:
So last month when people were snooping around the filming locations, there was a Gotham newspaper prop with Michael Keaton’s face on it. That hasn’t showed up yet. Maybe they couldn’t get his likeness rights to actually show on screen?
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Or perhaps they just ended up editing the Robert Wuhl scene in a way that didn't make use of a shot of that news vending machine (I think it was). Just because something is included on a set and shot on film doesn't guarantee it'll end up in the final edit. (For instance, the previews had a shot of Batwoman saying "The what now?" when Harbinger said the multiverse was in danger, but that wasn't in the final cut. I think the same thing happened with Elseworlds -- there was a bit in a preview scene of Flash and Green Arrow saying "That's not Batman" when Batwoman showed up for her big fight, but that wasn't in the aired episode.)
 
Dick Whitman said:
The use of Bruce Wayne..
Bizarre. Of all the uses of Kevin Conroy.... this?
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That was a perfect example of stunt casting/fan service. Conroy was just a voice artist for the character, so his being on screen was wrongheaded casting just to say they're using someone who once portrayed Batman.

I find it hard to believe that they are going to permanently kill off these past incarnations of the characters. The Adam West Batman and Michael Keaton Batman, etc are still making money for DC and WB in merchandise.
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They are not "permanently killed off" as DC/CW is not the official or only venue for preexisting characters. The West Batman series is a separate production/entity with no official ties to any other DC production. The same applies to the Keaton Batman. In the end, this is no more an official connection to those older productions than the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon was to the Raimi movies simply because the theme was played in the film, or similarly because the 1966 Marvel Superheroes cartoon's Iron Man theme played in the MCU's first IM movie did not connect the two / have any bearing on the other.

In recent history, only the Routh Superman film served as an example of a new production with a direct, official connection to the Reeve films.
 
Serveaux said:
The multiverse survives but the destroyed Earths stay destroyed.

So, is Earth 1 going to have a population of ten billion, or will the resolution somehow merge populations and histories as in the original story?
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That's my big question thus far, big problem with them 'saving' 4 Billion people or whatever off of Earth38. Now Earth 1 has 10+ Billion people, and is super screwed. Also, of the 10B, several Billion of them are likely duplicates, or alternates, or formerly dead people, etc. They're worse than homeless, someone is living in their home, with their family, etc. And then the obvious environmental disaster that almost doubling the population instantly would cause. This is a catastrophe!

I'd assumed that the 'point' of Crisis was going to be similar to the 80's comics (forgive me if I'm rusty there) with a merging into a single universe. We'd mix/match where heroes came from (Earth 1 Flash, Earth 38 Kara, etc) but there's only be a single shared Universe vice Multiverse at the end. Which would create havoc on whichever shows weren't on the 'final' Earth at the end; new characters, new versions of existing ones, whole thing up in the air. But by transplanting most of Earth 38, they've created a bunch of new problems too, and they're already hinting that a bunch of the alternate Earths (so, where we having existing shows) will try to be restored. Which makes most of this sorta pointless, no?

Yes, I realize that DC later undid most of it again, but not in the story line we're cribbing from, right?

Guess I don't get where this is going anymore. I was expecting a bigger impact, similar to the shift Agents of Shield made after the whole 'No more Shield, they were all secretly Hydra' reveal from the movies. To do a Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline and mostly go back to normal would be disappointing and sorta not make sense with the property they are using the name of...
 
Reverend said:
As for those saying Oliver will be back: no way. That made waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much of a meal of his death to have him come back. Even having Amell as a doppleganger at this point would feel a little cheap. Mia is The Green Arrow, so let her be The Green Arrow.! ;)
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Bottom line: they were never going to kill off Green Arrow, once and for all, on an episode of SUPERGIRL. If and when Oliver's story truly ends, that moment belongs on his own show.
 
Kirk Prime said:
But is this really the REEVE version? Or the Routh version?
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Considering the faiths of the majority of characters of those films I sincerely hope it's neither. Especially when you take into account who was responsible for those plaques on the wall. No thanks. But the episode tries to imply it is.
 
Saul said:
Considering the faiths of the majority of characters of those films I sincerely hope it's neither. Especially when you take into account who was responsible for those plaques on the wall. No thanks. But the episode tries to imply it is.
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It's been confirmed by the creators that it's sequel to Returns which was a sequel to the Reeve superman.
 
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