Creative Assistance Needed!

[Roboso]

Hello everyone! \V/_ Greetings from afar and qaStaH nuq? My travels brought me here by Afterdawn and I need a bit of creative help with something I'm working on, obviously fanfiction but not segregated to just Trek. I like all aspects of 'nerdum' and thus begins my problem. I want this to be as well thought out as possible if anyone ends up reading it, and I am really bad at creating names as it takes me time and watching my characters grow to give them a name based on their attributes and accomplishments. It's just how I work.

I have a female character based off the clichéd trait of being defensive, stand-offish and brooding, these traits forming from her upbringings as a slave. The character has permanent shackles (this changes somewhat) to signify her still restraining herself to her past (and how she can't run), holding onto her anger and hate. She falls strongly into the Chaotic Neutral alignment (obviously) and teeters back and forth between that and Lawful Neutral, before growing into the overused Chaotic Good category. Once here, she has undying devotion to her group and friends and is easily triggered when someone takes advantage of a being's free will or it is simply taken or controlled.

So! The reason I'm having trouble with this is because, as stated, I'm terrible at making names for the most part, and I'm certainly not cool enough to come up with a good enough name for this beautiful character on my own. She's half Klingon (mother's side), her genealogy being heavily inspired by B'Elanna Torres but a different angle on the Klingon side of the character. I need help with a name for this character and I know not all Klingon names have to mean something, but I know some do. I also have a few check-boxes...

1. It NEEDS to be a name that can be shortened into a real, modern, English nickname. This is really the biggest thing for me, as it follows a theme in my stories. I also find nicknames in groups endearing.

2. I'd like the meaning to have something to do with her upbringing and back story. Something that says 'strong of heart ' and 'unafraid'. But the biggest keyword would be 'free' or 'volition'.

...and that's really it. I can provide more backstory to the character if need be but didn't think it was totally necessary. The only other thing I can think of is she struggled to gain honor amongst her race for a long time, due to her family being enslaved for generations. Thanks in advance guys, as there's no way I could do this alone! Please let me know if I should include more info or if I'm chasing a red herring. Also, with Discovery coming out, I doubt this will be my one and only post.

Hope to hear from you guys soon! Until then...eh, du cha mee gagh roch? Lol.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Welcome to TrekBBS, I hope you like it here.

If you're wanting a little guidance, I'd suggest thinking about what her nickname would be and working back from there to come up with something Klingon-sounding--which you could then make mean whatever you want/need it too in order to fit in with your character, for example: B'Etai is called 'Betty' by those that know her whilst her names meaning in her local dialect is "heart of courage".

With a few apostrophises and some extra letters it's fairly straight forward to change a human name into something more alien-sounding. There is a website that has a fairly extensive resource with this sort of thing but I can't quite remember the name of it--I'll have a look later and put it up.

 

[loghaD]

I think Bry_Sinclair makes a good point that it's good to start with a name you like and working backwards; after all, the most important thing is that it works for you as a creator. That's actually how I arrived at my Klingon name; I started with "Laurent", decided I wanted to use the word logh ("space") and ended up with logh 'aD ("space vein" or "to have the depth of space"), which I then shortened to loghaD.

...and certainly, a name can have a meaning that isn't apparent in modern-day (or rather, future-day) standard Klingon. I personally have three first names of different origins: Swedish, Latin and Hebrew (via Greek and Latin).

That being said, I do very strongly advise against throwing in random apostrophes or capitalizing random letters; it's something that authors do a fair bit of, but it often ends up looking a bit silly, at least to people who've studied Klingon. There's also the risk that your name will end up meaning something bad.

If you have a name you like, I could suggest some useful vocabulary, or a phonetic approximation that works in tlhIngan Hol but which you can claim means something special in an archaic/regional language.

For example, if you want to use "Betty", you could have use of such words as be' ("woman"), batlh ("honor"), 'Iw ("blood"), tIq ("heart") or tIgh ("custom"). You might also consider using syllables such as bet or betlh, which don't mean anything on their own. However, you might wish to avoid bIt ("be nervous").

Likewise, if you want to use "Jackie", then you might like something like jaqwI' ("bold one") or jeQwI' ("selfconfident one"), or something meaningless like jetlh or jew'qa'. However, you might wish to avoid something like jeHwI' ("absentminded one") or jeghwI' ("one who surrenders").

Some vocabulary that might help with the meanings you're after:

Strong of heart:
tIq = "heart"
qa' = "spirit"
HoS = "(be) strong"
Hem = "(be) proud"

Unafraid:
yoH = "(be) brave"
jaq = "(be) bold"

Free:
tlhab = "(be) free" or "freedom"

Volition:
nong = "(be) passionate"
baj = "earn, work for"
vum = "work, toil"
taH = "keep going, endure, survive"

Honor:
batlh = "honor (intrinsic)"
quv = "honor (either intrinsic or in the sense of one's social standing)"
nur = "dignity"
ngay' = "glory"

 

[DarKush]

Adding my two cents...

There are Klingon name generators out there to help. I also sometimes will go to Memory Beta and look up the names of Klingon characters and play around with that until I arrive at something I like. I have also looked at Star Trek Online's Klingon characters for inspiration.

Also, another thing I sometimes do when I am looking for character names is an internet search for say 'names that mean fire' and see if there's anything there. And you can specify to say male or female. Often times I get good options with what I find.

 

[Roboso]

OMG you guys are a collective of badasses, no pun intended. I knew real Trekkers would be able to help me. It's funny you guys say to come up with her nickname first, because that's how I usually do exotic or fantastical names like this, and using past names from canon (I like Grace, actually). But I failed to mention that I know zero Klingon and didn't want to take creative liberties with this. Especially with subtleties like loghaD mentioned about punctuation, I didn't want to throw something together a real fan would look at and say, "That doesn't mean that." or, "That's not even Klingon!"

Bry_Sinclair, if it would be possible for you to still provide that link? I have Klingon characters with blank names and could really use that as a pocket reference for future developments. That also being said loghaD, if I threw some normal names and Klingon ones from the phonetics you provided? Among the normal names are...

Grace
Fiona
Marsha
Yolee

...from what I keaned about Klingon (from this page, I have...

YoH'lhab (yoh + tlhab)
Tahlah (taH + tlhab)
Baj'bah (baj + batlh)
HoStha (HoS + tlhab)

...the free thing is obviously important to her character. Thanks again for your hard work guys. If there was a MVP award for the website I'd give you guys it.

 

[Roboso]

Holy quasars, there's no edit OR delete button here! I didn't complete a sentence above and meant to ask for help with the naming process if I threw some out there

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Holy quasars, there's no edit OR delete button here! I didn't complete a sentence above and meant to ask for help with the naming process if I threw some out there

You get those buttons after several posts (I don't know how many though, you'd best ask an Admin).

As for the site it exonoma.com (they have for Trek, Wars and loads of other fandoms).

 

[Roboso]

You get those buttons after several posts (I don't know how many though, you'd best ask an Admin).

As for the site it exonoma.com (they have for Trek, Wars and loads of other fandoms).

Ah, I see. According to the banner window I see, after 14 days and posts.

VERY cool. I'm actually pretty confident in my Wars naming (my primary fandom) and Tolkien/fantasy stuff, but when I messed around with the Klingon stuff, nothing really felt right. I knew I'd need some real help for it. Thanks again Bry.

 

[DarKush]

Roboso,

I wouldn't be concerned about what 'real' fans think about your names, or creative liberties. What's a real fan? And who determines that? The fact that you're on a Trek board shows a level of commitment and interest beyond the casual so you're just as much a real fan as anyone on this website.

I mean this is fan fiction after all, and all fiction takes creative liberties. It doesn't seem to me that there is any certain or proper way to name Klingon characters. Just go with the name (s) that you feel comfortable with.

There are online sources with information about Klingon culture/history like Memory Alpha and Memory Beta. Also there's a Klingon Language Institute I think. But there's also books like The Klingon Dictionary, Klingon for the Galactic Traveler, The Klingon Art of War than can help as well.

 

[loghaD]

First of all, I would like to say that I agree with what others have said regarding creative liberties:
As an author, your creative liberties are enormous. As a fan fic author, they are boundless.

As a klingonist, I can tell you about what klingonists consider to be "correct" use of tlhIngan Hol. As an author, you're well within your rights to simply disregard this ... but then again, it's also well within your rights to hold it in as high regard as you choose; just be sure that you're doing so as your own choice, rather than to escape the judgment of others. Think of it as inspiration to get your imagination going, not as a prison to confine it.

Now, some remarks on Klingon writing:

I'll be writing this post using the Okrandian romanization of tlhIngan Hol, which (from an in-universe perspective) is a transliteration of the indigenous pIqaD alphabet (pictured below). Notice that the romanization includes several digraphs (ch, gh & ng) and one trigraph (tlh). These are each considered a single consonant in tlhIngan Hol, and cannot be broken apart; for example, there is no standalone c or g in romanized tlhIngan Hol, nor is there a standalone (lower-case) h.

I'll also be talking a bit about tlhIngan Hol syllable structure. Unlike English, but similar to, for example, Japanese, tlhIngan Hol has quite a strict syllable structure, with no vowel clusters (such as ao or eu or eau) and heavy restrictions on consonant clusters.
That being said, while this syllable structure applies to the vast majority of all tlhIngan Hol words and names, one does sometimes see exceptions. For example, the word paq'batlh ("the book of honor") contains the "forbidden" consonant cluster q'b, but that's okay because it's an archaic word from an older form of the language.
Likewise, non-native names are sometimes transcribed in ways that deviate from this syllable structure; examples include jemS tIy qIrq (forbidden endings -mS and -rq) and janluq pIqarD (forbidden ending -rD) and even the name of the language's creator, marq 'oqranD (forbidden endings -rq and -nD).

Lastly, while the Okrandian romanization is very useful for phonetically representing Klingon words, it can be quite a strain on the eyes for many readers and break the flow of text, wherefore Klingon names often have a more "English" form. Examples include Worf (wo'rIv), B'Elanna (beylana), Azetbur ('a'Setbur), Gowron (ghawran) and even Kahless (qeylIS).

So, if you go with the idea that your name originates in a language other than standard modern-day tlhIngan Hol, you have quite a lot of leeway in designing a name; the name doesn't have to follow the standard structure to the letter (pun very much intended), and the English spelling of the name can be pretty much anything.

Your character might even have multiple forms of her name: One in her native/ancestral tongue, one in standard tlhIngan Hol (for use in official contexts) and an English approximation of either (or both) of those names. This actually has plenty of precedent in real life; consider, for example, the case of the Chinese-Burmese merchant Lim Chin Tsong:

Chinese name: 林振宗
Romanization (Pinyin): rínzhènzōng
Burmese name: လင်းချင်းချောင်း
Romanization (according to Google Translate): lainn hkyinn hkyaungg
English: Lim Chin Tsong

It's also worth noting that it's far from unheard of for names to have an unfortunate meaning in another language, so even if it's worth taking into consideration, it shouldn't be seen as a deal-breaker.

So, to summarize: Don't listen to anything I say. Now, here's what I have to say:

Starting with the Klingon names:

Those all look good to me, and if you like them, then you should use them. However, it should be noted that they don't work in the Okrandian romanization of standard tlhIngan Hol (which, as mentioned above, you may or may not consider a problem).
Here are how they might be spelled in the Okrandian romanization:

YoH'lhab - yoHlab
Tahlah - taHlaH (literally means "she/he/it/they can endure"), taHla', taHlagh
Baj'bah - bajba' ("she obviously earns"), bajbaH, bajbagh
HoStha - HoStlha, HoSva, HoSwa

As for the English names:

Grace - A phonetic approximation would be something like ghIreS/ghureS, qIreS/qureS or tlheS.
Some potentially useful words are ghu ("baby"), ghu' ("situation"), qu' ("be fierce"), qu'wI' ("fierce one"), qul ("fire"), Qu' ("mission") and Qu ("cast (metal)"), Qur ("structure"), ghur ("increase"), quH ("heritage"), Hegh ("die/death"), reH ("forever/play"), regh ("bleed"), 'etlh ("sword") and reS ("cast (a spell)"). Syllables you may wish to avoid include qur ("be greedy"), QuS ("conspire/conspiracy") and quS ("chair").

Fiona - A phonetic approximation would be something like vI'onna' or vI'yonna'.
Some potentially useful words are vI' ("accumulate"), vIq ("combat"), ve' ("travel (with purpose)"), veS ("warfare"), wIgh ("genius"), wIl ("spike"), yon ("be satisfied"), yonHa' ("be dissatisfied"), 'ong ("be cunning"), 'ogh ("invent/devise"), 'or ("pilot/navigate"), 'oy' ("pain/hurt"), 'oynot ("flesh"), -na' (noun suffix: "definitive").
There's also the augmentative noun suffix -'a', which also doubles as an interrogative verb suffix.
'oy'na' = "definitive pain"
'oy''a' = "great pain" or "is she in pain?"

Marsha - A phonetic approximation would be something like marSa'. maghSa' is also quite close, but magh Sa' means "the general betrays", so that may be inadvisable.
Some potentially useful words are maS ("moon" or "prefer"), maS'a' ("great moon"), may ("be fair"), mayHa' ("be unfair"), may' ("battle"), matlh ("be loyal"), yaS ("officer"), 'agh ("show/display"), maq ("proclaim"), maQ ("signal/omen"), Sa' ("general"), Sar ("variety / be varied"), Sagh ("serious"), Sargh ("sark"; a horse-like animal, albeit much more dangerous), SaQ ("cry"), Sal ("ascend"), chal ("sky"), Hay' ("duel"), qa' ("spirit"), qaw ("remember"), matHa' ("gunner"). You may wish to avoid the syllables magh ("betray") or Haw' ("flee").

Yolee - A phonetic approximation would be something like yo'lIy or yo'lI'.
Some potentially useful words are yo' ("fleet"), yol ("conflict"), yoH ("be brave"), yoHwI' ("brave one"), jo ("resources"), joq ("flutter", or "beat (heart)"), joqwI' ("flag/banner"), joH ("lord/lady; leader of a Klingon house"), jot ("be calm"), joy' ("tortures"), joy'lu' ("is tortured"), jul ("sun"), juH ("home"), yuQ ("planet"), jal ("imagine/envision"), lI' ("useful"), lIy ("comet"), le' ("be special"), legh ("see"), 'Iw ("blood"), 'IH ("be beautiful"), 'IQ ("be sad"), 'Iq ("be too many"), 'Igh ("be cursed/jinxed (slang)").

 

[Roboso]

I really appreciate the positive enforcement guys, makes me feel apart of the fandom. All I'm implying with these statements is my time and devotion to the trek isn't as plentiful as other areas of fiction. I've created and written many of my own worlds and even more stories within other people's worlds, and as a devoted fan writer, I feel I should at least dedicate a part of my works to the parts of the world that the original author or writers already have implemented.

I think that you guys think I'm trying to avoid displeasing the masses or the fanbase, and that's far from it. You're never going to please everyone and if you're struggling to do that, you won't please anyone, including yourself. What I am aiming to do is immerse my fans in a world already constructed by someone else, where there are certain rules in effect. This can be difficult when you're just above what could be considered a casual fan, but not devoted enough to be labeled hardcore or fanatical. At a risk of making myself sound incredibly nerdy and revealing the mania I wish to construct, an example I can give is one of the companions to my Klingon character is Kryptonian.

Pâr-Dorn is named this way for a few reasons. I've been reading comics all my life; he's named after the parxtòn fruit from Krypton (basically a 'peach', thus one of his nicknames) and he is the first son of house Dorn. His friends call him Pax or Paxton. This is easy for me because I know what I'm making without stepping on toes. Now, a lot of these usually fall together and create themselves without me trying, but it's different when I'm not accustomed to the whole world, and the Klingons have a huge world just within their own show. My goal is to simply avoid besmirching any loved stories or worlds that have guidelines, as I feel it immerses the reader or audience (and me, especially with this scheme) more with familiarity as well, and gives the opportunity to see and experience other places and worlds without fully leaving the comfort of your own.

Sorry, babble over. I absolutely LOVE what I'm learning. I very much giggled like a little kid seeing these all come together and something start to come from it. I am also finding myself wanting to use the Okrandian romanization as, after observation, they look entirely more Klingon than if not. While I was immediately drawn to the names involving oy'na, I realized that her name should both represent who she was, (a Klingon slave unaware there is a reason for her honor and rage burning within) the heights she will eventually surpass, (knowing that others will never trust her to do more than a brute's work or fight, and that people and especially your friends aren't shackles holding you back) and where she ultimately ends up (a champion and defender of those with little or no will). With that being said, is there any words to describe culmination or zenith? I very much like reH, (forever; obviously to do with an infinity realm) reS, (she becomes a secondary mage, despite her background in a science prevalent 'verse), Sal (obviously) and maQ (each group member represents a universal mechanic) but not sure what to put together (rehmaq? Omen of forever?).

Finally there were two that jumped out at me and if there's nothing for what I've asked above, then it's going to be one of these. Does vI'yonna' (Vil'onna?) have a literal translation? Because from what I can see doesn't it mean something like "accumulates definitive pain"? Because if so that could work on several levels for my works. But taHlaH (Tahlah and Tah'lah each work well) really speaks to me on every level. There's an obvious nickname in there and it doesn't focus a lot on the physical strength of the Klingons (which everyone knows they have) but on becoming stronger within, not necessarily overcoming obstacles or strong enemies, but also yourself and things you imagine in your way. This is the number-one contender right now, haha!

You guys have no idea how much I appreciate this and how long my baby was nameless lol! Thanks for all your time and patience with this slow acting Tribble trainer and I swear I'm nearly done with this and won't take much more of your time.

 

[loghaD]

Sounds like you've got a good attitude

While I was immediately drawn to the names involving oy'na,

Careful with those apostrophes; it's 'oy'na'

The apostrophe (or glottal stop) can make quite a big difference in tlhIngan Hol. For example:

Ho''oy' = "tooth" + "pain" = "toothache"
Ho'oy = "tooth" + endearment suffix" ~ "my dear toothy"
qama' = "prisoner"
qa'ma' = "our spirit(s)"
naywI' = "bride"
nay'wI' = "my dish (which is capable of language)"

(rehmaq? Omen of forever?)

It's worth noting that the capital Q makes some difference here:
maQ = "omen/sign"
maq = "proclaim"

Does vI'yonna' (Vil'onna?) have a literal translation? Because from what I can see doesn't it mean something like "accumulates definitive pain"?

Nope, it doesn't really have any sensical meaning; the closest would be something like "certain-is-satisfied-acculumates". vI''oy'na' would be "certain-pain-accumulates".

 

[Roboso]

Careful with those apostrophes; it's 'oy'na'

Ah, okay thank you. I thought they were there in place of quotations but I get it now.

nay'wI' = "my dish (which is capable of language)"

Pft! xD as in, a food capable of speaking, ie. Intelligence?

It's worth noting that the capital Q makes some difference here:
maQ = "omen/sign"
maq = "proclaim"

Thanks for this as well. So would both work for reHmaq and reHmaQ? Or do they need the glottal stop?

vI''oy'na' would be "certain-pain-accumulates"

Still going to use this down the road.

So, I'm pretty sure taHlaH is the winner here, but what would the English form be? Ta'la' or just Ta'la? Not sure if there needs to be a proper way of doing that.

Very cool lessons loghaD. I appreciate your help monstrously. If you need someone to soft-edit or proofread anything, by all means let me know.

 

[loghaD]

Ah, okay thank you. I thought they were there in place of quotations but I get it now.

Very common misunderstanding; I should have clarified

Pft! xD as in, a food capable of speaking, ie. Intelligence?

Yup; Klingon as different genitive suffixes depending on whether or not the possessed thing is capable of communicating through language. So, for example, ta' can mean either "emperor" or "deed", but ta'wI' means "my emperor" and ta'wIj means "my deed".

An example I like to use is to say that the words nay' ("dish, meal") and Soj ("food") should take the -wIj suffix, unless it is capable of pleading for mercy, in which case it should take -wI'.

Thanks for this as well. So would both work for reHmaq and reHmaQ? Or do they need the glottal stop?

Both are equally correct; reHmaq would mean something like "always-proclaims" while reHmaQ would mean "always-omen" or "forever-omen".
Both are irregular compounds, but that's nothing out of the ordinary for personal names (my own being another example).

No glottal stops. Basically, the glottal stop is a consonant like any other in tlhIngan Hol, so it doesn't have any particular role in forming compounds.

So, I'm pretty sure taHlaH is the winner here, but what would the English form be? Ta'la' or just Ta'la? Not sure if there needs to be a proper way of doing that.

The H is pronounced like the ch in Bach or Loch Ness. To communicate it to an English-speaker, something like Takhlakh or Tachlach might be appropriate. Probably the former, as it matches how The Klingon Dictionary approximates the H sound in the Phrases section, and mitigates the risk of confusing it with tachlach ("tavern-exaggerate").