Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comments?

Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

I don't think I accurately said what I wanted to say in my previous post...it was late and blah, blah, blah, excuse excuse...[SNIP]

I agree, but actually writing anything substantial is way too time consuming at the moment. Short sharp bursts of worldbuilding is a lot more fun!

I drew up a full roster for my Border Cutter Silverfin series. There are a little over 120 onboard and the purpose of the ship is far more practical and directed than that of an explorer--more focus on operations and security personnel with no scientists onboard.

I worked out all the species onboard and also named them all, from the Captain to the lowest Transporter Technician.

If you're interested in looking at what I did, follow this link.

Likewise for my new Archer-Class scout ship, I filled every position, though that was a lot easier, given that there are only 14 of them :)

Took me a long time to reply to this: your Cuttlefish roster was what gave me the initial inspiration to do all this, so thank you very much! Thoroughly enjoyed reading your thread when I stumbled onto it a few years ago.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

I was wondering if you had done anything more with this project. I've given it a bit of idle thought but haven't put fingers to keyboard yet.

I did try to Google "trek crew list" only to find a thread here on this board from 2008. See The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech > Starfleet Crew Compositions? at this link: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=78161
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

I was wondering if you had done anything more with this project. I've given it a bit of idle thought but haven't put fingers to keyboard yet.

I did try to Google "trek crew list" only to find a thread here on this board from 2008. See The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech > Starfleet Crew Compositions? at this link: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=78161

I work in short, sharp, bursts! The amount of unfinished projects I have in my Worldbuilding folder is huge.. so I haven't done anything yet to add to it, but I'm thinking I might try next weekend when I had some time.

And thanks for the thread link: before embarking on this project I did a tonne of research; searched TrekBBS and Google for all the keywords I could think of... I rekon my Research folder is about the same size as my Projects folder! I do sometimes get caught up in that loop of research, research, research.. but not actually getting anything done!

At the moment I'm mentally re-evaluating the whole Science aspect of my crewlist.. I thought it would work a lot better to have a non-Starfleet Federation Science group onboard, but I am beginning to reconsider it.. it makes the ship maybe too much like a floating University when the *actual* purpose of the ship is for short-to-medium range planetary and interstellar survey.

I'm also re-evaluating my cutting of the transporters.. I got some pretty bad feedback on another Forum.. apparently I'm basically destroying Star Trek canon by removing "such a core tenant" of the franchise. For the purposes of my story, it might be easier to have the entire transporter system destroyed instead of being non-existent.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

I do sometimes get caught up in that loop of research, research, research.. but not actually getting anything done!
Oh, boy, do I ever know that feeling. (sigh)
I'm mentally re-evaluating the whole Science aspect of my crewlist
Yeah, I wasn't even going to comment on that section, not unless something totally weird jumped out at me. I figured I'd look at the crew needed to run the ship and let the mission-specific stuff up to you.
I'm also re-evaluating my cutting of the transporters
Hate to tell you this, but I have to agree that it just doesn't seem like Trek without Transporters. That's a key element of the setting, don't you think? It'd be like taking Warp drive away from them.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

A civilian science section aboard a Federation starship wouldn't make much sense, but you could assign a particularly troublesome civilian science expert to the mission. Someone who isn't beholden to the chain-of-command, and doesn't necessarily follow the captain's orders at the drop of a hat. Perhaps someone with a well-developed ego... something like Dr. Nicholas Rush from Stargate: Universe?

Additionally, even if you managed to create a realistic reason the ship's transporters were knocked offline and couldn't be repaired, they'd still have cargo transporters and the transporters aboard their various shuttlecraft.

Just my $0.02.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

I have no problem with a mostly civilian science section, if that's what his story calls for. And are they civilian-civilians, or are they government GS civilians?? He gave them "ranks", so I'm thinking it might be the later.

RE: Transporters on shuttles .... depends on the era. If it's ST:TOS / ST:TAS, then no. And even if they do have, I would think the range is limited. I would think that cargo transporters are tied in with the personnel transporters.

I have a problem, as I mentioned before, with the premise that he kills off the top two or three officers as well as the chief medical officer, and now wrecks the transporters (maybe that's how they died?) .... this ship will NOT be left out on patrol. Start Fleet will recall that ship back to base, or as the very least send out a replacement command staff.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Okay, so let's get back to the basics.

You have duty stations that you must man 24/7 (e.g., helm, sensors, warp drive, etc.), ones that are mostly banker's hours but might be needed at any time (medical, computer tech, engineering maintenance, etc.), ones that are almost always Mon-Fri day shift (yeoman = admin-clerk, supply) and jobs that are as needed so you need to find other make-work for them (weapons, shuttle pilots).

Let's look at the 24/7 jobs. To keep a body in a chair at all times, obviously the minimum number of crew is two, but that means 12-hours shifts with zero days off. You can do that, but not for very long before you burn your people out.

With three people, you can run a 2-on/1-off or 4-on/2-off 12-hour shift, flipping from days to nights and back each rotation of shifts. I've worked that schedule. It sucks. You don't want to keep that up for long periods of time. With three crew in the rotation, you can go 8-hour shift, no flipping, but no days off. Or you can go with a modern Navy "dog-watch" schedule of five 4-hour and two 2-hour shifts per day. Either way, it tends to get old after a while.

Realistically, you need a minimum of four crew for each 24/7 duty position. This will give you a 4-on/1-off rotating 8-hour shift schedule. That's not too bad. But most of my USAF career, we had five people in the rotation so we'd get two-day breaks between flips. If your ship's mission put it on long patrols, you probably want five per slot. This give you flexibility in case someone gets sick/injured/killed or is on leave or otherwise away (leadership school / technical school, etc). But that's a bit of surplus that a smaller ship can't afford, so they'd have four (or even three) crew per slot.

With all that in mind, you have to figure out what stations have to be manned 24/7 to fly the ship. By my count, at a minimum, you need:

Bridge Watch Officer, Nav, Helm, Comms, Sensors; Warp-drive (two per engine), Impulse-drive, and Engineering Watch Officer. Eleven slots, so that's 44 or 55 crew accounted for. More if you think of other jobs required. Oh, yeah -- I forgot the cooks.

Depending on the size of the ship / total crew and the mission, you probably want a medic on duty at all times (especially of you have anyone in Sick Bay recovery). Is an enlisted medic enough, or do you want a nurse and/or doctor on shift, too?

As to security guards, do you really need them on-duty 24/7 all over the ship??? But if you have anyone in the brig, then you need a guard or two on duty.

Most other jobs will have one body per slot, but let's say you have a shuttle bay deck-crew that has fifteen people during the day Mon-Fri and still needs five bodies all other hours, the math is a bit complex but I believe it works out you'd need about thirty personnel to cover all the shifts and still give the guys some down-time. Everyone would work a couple-few weeks of M-F days, and then go into the nights/weekend rotation for a few weeks before going back to M-F days. I've never worked it, but I've seen schedules like that. They looked like a bear to draft.

The same could be said for the Maintenance section under Engineering. You do most of your routine inspections and repairs M-F days, but might also keep a small crew on duty all the time. Maybe. Or you might just have rotate the on-call duty around so you're not waking the same guy up all the time.

And speaking of on-call, I presume you have a Weapons division. There's only so much checks and inspection you can do on a phaser bank or photon tube, so those guys will have a lot of down-time. Ergo, they probably pull a lot of KP duty and the like. You could say the same about Security and Marines (if you have them), and transporter techs/ tractor-beam techs.

The last group can get weird: shuttlecraft pilots. If these are anything like modern USAF pilots / Army copter drivers, they have strict crew-rest requirements. If memory serves it works out you need seven-plus pilots to keep one plane in the air at all time. I doubt you need that, but assuming you want them to be able to fly 24/7, you will want five pilots minimum just for one shuttle. You have twelve shuttles total, some of which need co-pilots. To be able to fly them all at the same time, you need SEVENTEEN pilots. Yikes! But what are the odds of needing to do that? Still, having twelve to fifteen pilots isn't unreasonable. However, consider that most every commissioned officer will be REQUIRED to be shuttle-pilot certified, you can maybe cut back on the dedicated number of shuttle pilots.

Sorry for the book-of-month. Next post, I want to talk about the org-chart of how divisions / sections are arranged.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Hate to tell you this, but I have to agree that it just doesn't seem like Trek without Transporters. That's a key element of the setting, don't you think? It'd be like taking Warp drive away from them.

Aye, that's exactly what the other guy said! My issue with transporters is that if you have the possibility to transmute matter several thousand KMs, you basically have the technology to do anything. It has massive implications for computer scanning and processing power, for medicine, for battle tactics.... Beam hostile crews off their ships, or torpedoes directly onto the bridge. Beam out cancers, parasites, and perform molecular level surgery. You've also basically got a backup of every single crew member, so no one should ever die!

We've also seen plenty of bizarre transporter issues over the series: if you beam you can regress into a child, if you beam you can merge into another person in the matter stream, if you beam you can split a person into two people, if you beam you can accidentally end up in a parallel universe, if you beam you might end up back in time... lots of issues!

From a writing point of view, I always got the feeling that transporter tech constrained storylines. After seeing the use of Runabouts in DS9 I'd really love to see shuttles play a much bigger part of plots. I'm not sure though; I can definitely see the point of view that transporters are a pretty integral part of Trek.

A civilian science section aboard a Federation starship wouldn't make much sense, but you could assign a particularly troublesome civilian science expert to the mission. Someone who isn't beholden to the chain-of-command, and doesn't necessarily follow the captain's orders at the drop of a hat. Perhaps someone with a well-developed ego... something like Dr. Nicholas Rush from Stargate: Universe?

Additionally, even if you managed to create a realistic reason the ship's transporters were knocked offline and couldn't be repaired, they'd still have cargo transporters and the transporters aboard their various shuttlecraft.

Just my $0.02.

The idea was that its quasi-civilian.. I think. Sort of like the Federation Science Institute; not part of Starfleet but still "official". I'm not sure, I am reevaluating the entire Science Division. I like your idea of the civilian Science Expert.. hmm. Lots to think about!

Never thought of the damn transporters on the shuttles. I'm thinking the entire starship transporter system could be destroyed, which would include the cargos and emergency transporters. But yeah, the shuttles having them would be an issue.. maybe they have to conserve energy so they can only use them sparingly. I don't want to fall back on the constant 'atmospheric ionization that blocks transporters!' cliche.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Alright I don't have time to read everyone's posts but here goes.


Training would take up a massive amount of time. Training for every possibility, and cross training.

Tactical officers would literally spend most of there time sitting and thinking of contingencies that could occur.

What if the breen attack, are we close to the romulans etc.

Engineers would be planning refits, maintenance upgrades etc.

They'd also be involved in retrofitting the ship for mission specifications.

Furthermore there would be a massive amount of research going on at all times. What was just a planet of the week to the captain was likely months of research for some young enlisty.

I'd put the 10 percent of actual time as on duty.

30 percent for training/cross training.

30 for program planning.

and another 30 for research.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

I have no problem with a mostly civilian science section, if that's what his story calls for. And are they civilian-civilians, or are they government GS civilians?? He gave them "ranks", so I'm thinking it might be the later.

RE: Transporters on shuttles .... depends on the era. If it's ST:TOS / ST:TAS, then no. And even if they do have, I would think the range is limited. I would think that cargo transporters are tied in with the personnel transporters.

I have a problem, as I mentioned before, with the premise that he kills off the top two or three officers as well as the chief medical officer, and now wrecks the transporters (maybe that's how they died?) .... this ship will NOT be left out on patrol. Start Fleet will recall that ship back to base, or as the very least send out a replacement command staff.

It's set in 2370 or there about, so Season 7 of TNG ish.

I also have an issue with the entire higher chain of command getting incapacitated.

I really don't want to give too much away from my story, because it's all in REALLY early design stages so far and is seriously subject to change, but maybe if I gave some context to this it would help a little. Character names subject to change.. heck..EVERYTHING subject to change.

PREMISE
The USS Endeavour is lost in the Large Magellanic Cloud, with no possibility of getting home. Her fresh-faced, inexperienced, crew have to deal with the emotional pain of realistically never seeing home again, while dealing with a damaged ship, dwindling resources, and a hostile element on-ship. They struggle together to survive in the face of the completely alien and unknown space they are now in.

The main character is Samuel Isaacs, a fresh Starfleet graduate. How do we get him into the post of Second in Command and at the rank of Lieutenant immediately? I am not sure. It's fairly integral to the story that he is not experienced. Driven, passionate, but still raw and rough around the edges. I am thinking that the Captain Amasov places him as Second Officer as a proving test; he can see how much potential Sam has, so puts him in this position that doesn't require much responsibility. But how he gets that rank is still something that I haven't figured out.

Core characters include the Vulcan Captain (N’Vea), Mission Specialist, and the Tzenkethi Katarch (see below).

Other characters are a rotating number of characters from all ranks and divisions; shuttle pilots, engineers, scientists. I want to show how different characters deal with the situation in their own distinct ways.

REASONING
Sound like Voyager? Yeah a bit. Voyager was my favourite TV show growing up. I loved the premise, but like a lot of fans I was a little unhappy in the way the direction went. The whole ‘inexperienced crew dealing with an extreme out-of-context situation’ really appealed to me, and I thought that there is lots of potential for story there.

Likewise, I loved nu-Battlestar Galactica and how it dealt with a fleet, alone, under constant threat with no way to get home. No surprise that Roger D Moore worked on both, there are lots of similarities. I didn’t like that BSG had very little “hope” in it. It was a dark and depressing series: Star Trek has always seemed to be best when it shows how humanity can face the darkest of situations with hope, always keeping to the ideals and principles.

The premise, then, is almost combining Voyager and BSG. I want our ship and crew to be stuck in a hopeless and utterly terrifying setting, having to face constant challenges, but still clinging together and trying to uphold the idea of what the Federation and humanity is. It’s a struggle, a journey, but one where through the actions of the characters there is still light at the end of the tunnel.

But I also wanted some internal conflict, and an internal threat. The Marquis in Voyager were meant to be that, but it fizzled out by the fourth episode or so. But I also didn’t want the cliché undeveloped evil aliens trope. So what about an alien complement on-board who have ideals and beliefs that are, for their own reasons, completely opposite to what our main characters want. Looking at the various races we’ve been exposed to, I wanted a race that had threatening dealings with the Federation, but which was undeveloped enough to not be constricted by existing canon. The Tzenkethi is perfect for this. We know they’ve been at war with the Federation before, must have a similar level of technology, but we’ve never actually seen them on-screen (though they have been developed in the books). So we have about 25 or more Tzenkethi civilians, led by the Katarch. She is a ruthless, manipulative, and fiercely loyal character who will do anything to ensure the safety and interests of her people. Completely hates the Federation and Starfleet, massively resents the crew for getting them stuck in the LMC.

I also wanted the story not to focus on Captain N’Vea. In fact, in the story, N’Vea (a reluctant Vulcan retired-Commodore who was only meant to command the Endeavour until she got her back to Starbase, again see below) spends most of her time locked away in her quarters meditating. Absolutely not the caring and empathetic Captain we are used to. So it’s up to Sam and the senior staff to try and lead the crew through the darkness.

INITIAL SETUP
The USS Endeavour sets out on a three year mission (in 2370 or 2369). She is a newly commissioned ship, commanded by the experienced Captain Amasov. The crew is mostly fresh graduates and the newly enlisted, with most of the senior staff coming over from Amasov's old ship (the USS Endeavour, Nebula Class, damaged beyond repair in Wolf 359). Their three year mission is planetary survey and interstellar charting of the Cygni-Draconis sector of space: light-years out from the borders of Federation Space but still in relatively friendly backwaters. The nearest culture is the Tzenkethi Coalition, but their initial route just skirts its claimed volume.

Now for a really quick rundown of the events that lead them to getting stuck in the LMC. A month into the mission, surveying the first planet; the survey base is attacked by a Tzenkethi faction. The CMO is killed, Captain Amasov critically injured. At the same time the Endeavour is attacked by Tzenkethi ships. The First Officer leads the rescue attempt; he is killed defending the base. Captain Amasov dies, the ship is heavily damaged. Several mistakes by Sam, who is hopelessly out of his depth while as Duty Officer on the bridge when the attack happens leads to many deaths. They even have to leave some crew behind on the planet while they retreat. Sam, who was ‘in command’ at the time is wracked with survivors guilt and feels that his actions have lead to the death of the Captain. The Endeavour is contacted by Starfleet Command who appoints a nearby Vulcan retired-Commodore, N’Vea, who was on extended retreat on an uninhabited planet, to take the ship back to Starbase where a full court-martial and investigatory hearing can be decided.

On the way there they pick up a distress signal from a Tzenkethi civilian science station. N’Vea, who is very by-the-book, orders the Endeavour to investigate much to the consternation of some of the crew. We find a Collapsar (can’t have Trek without at least one subspace anomaly!), which is a cross between an unstable wormhole and a collapsing blackhole. The Tzenkethi are studying it, but their station is falling into the gravity well. A rescue operation commences, but sudden gravitational changes forces the Endeavour also into gravity well of the Collapsar. I’m fond of the “shit goes wrong, then shit gets much worse” doctrine of writing. With some clever engineering the Endeavour survives but with massive structural damage from the trip through the Collapsar and with even more crew deaths. They are deposited on the outer edges of the LMC.

That’s my initial setup then. Hopefully it answers some questions. Please do be ruthless if anyone wants to pick apart the above. I have a thick skin and criticism can only help my work improve!

Sgt_GL: Shall reply to the rest of your big long post when I get back from work!
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Did you check the Operations division? It's got a Training department.

Not sure on the trading/merchant bit... simply because the whole "We have no money in the future" thing gives me a headache and I don't want to work out how it'd work with trading with other cultures at the moment!
Chances are it'd be something closer to a logistics officer.

A guy that tracks supplies, predicts upcoming needs for supplies etc.

I.e. decides when there is too much of a resource that isn't needed for the given needs of the ship mission.

Or decides what medical supplies are needed, for helping civilization x.


Granted everyone on the ship would be working with other folk.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Okay, so let's get back to the basics.

You have duty stations that you must man 24/7 (e.g., helm, sensors, warp drive, etc.), ones that are mostly banker's hours but might be needed at any time (medical, computer tech, engineering maintenance, etc.), ones that are almost always Mon-Fri day shift (yeoman = admin-clerk, supply) and jobs that are as needed so you need to find other make-work for them (weapons, shuttle pilots).

Let's look at the 24/7 jobs. To keep a body in a chair at all times, obviously the minimum number of crew is two, but that means 12-hours shifts with zero days off. You can do that, but not for very long before you burn your people out.

With three people, you can run a 2-on/1-off or 4-on/2-off 12-hour shift, flipping from days to nights and back each rotation of shifts. I've worked that schedule. It sucks. You don't want to keep that up for long periods of time. With three crew in the rotation, you can go 8-hour shift, no flipping, but no days off. Or you can go with a modern Navy "dog-watch" schedule of five 4-hour and two 2-hour shifts per day. Either way, it tends to get old after a while.

Realistically, you need a minimum of four crew for each 24/7 duty position. This will give you a 4-on/1-off rotating 8-hour shift schedule. That's not too bad. But most of my USAF career, we had five people in the rotation so we'd get two-day breaks between flips. If your ship's mission put it on long patrols, you probably want five per slot. This give you flexibility in case someone gets sick/injured/killed or is on leave or otherwise away (leadership school / technical school, etc). But that's a bit of surplus that a smaller ship can't afford, so they'd have four (or even three) crew per slot.

With all that in mind, you have to figure out what stations have to be manned 24/7 to fly the ship. By my count, at a minimum, you need:

Bridge Watch Officer, Nav, Helm, Comms, Sensors; Warp-drive (two per engine), Impulse-drive, and Engineering Watch Officer. Eleven slots, so that's 44 or 55 crew accounted for. More if you think of other jobs required. Oh, yeah -- I forgot the cooks.

Depending on the size of the ship / total crew and the mission, you probably want a medic on duty at all times (especially of you have anyone in Sick Bay recovery). Is an enlisted medic enough, or do you want a nurse and/or doctor on shift, too?

As to security guards, do you really need them on-duty 24/7 all over the ship??? But if you have anyone in the brig, then you need a guard or two on duty.

Most other jobs will have one body per slot, but let's say you have a shuttle bay deck-crew that has fifteen people during the day Mon-Fri and still needs five bodies all other hours, the math is a bit complex but I believe it works out you'd need about thirty personnel to cover all the shifts and still give the guys some down-time. Everyone would work a couple-few weeks of M-F days, and then go into the nights/weekend rotation for a few weeks before going back to M-F days. I've never worked it, but I've seen schedules like that. They looked like a bear to draft.

The same could be said for the Maintenance section under Engineering. You do most of your routine inspections and repairs M-F days, but might also keep a small crew on duty all the time. Maybe. Or you might just have rotate the on-call duty around so you're not waking the same guy up all the time.

And speaking of on-call, I presume you have a Weapons division. There's only so much checks and inspection you can do on a phaser bank or photon tube, so those guys will have a lot of down-time. Ergo, they probably pull a lot of KP duty and the like. You could say the same about Security and Marines (if you have them), and transporter techs/ tractor-beam techs.

The last group can get weird: shuttlecraft pilots. If these are anything like modern USAF pilots / Army copter drivers, they have strict crew-rest requirements. If memory serves it works out you need seven-plus pilots to keep one plane in the air at all time. I doubt you need that, but assuming you want them to be able to fly 24/7, you will want five pilots minimum just for one shuttle. You have twelve shuttles total, some of which need co-pilots. To be able to fly them all at the same time, you need SEVENTEEN pilots. Yikes! But what are the odds of needing to do that? Still, having twelve to fifteen pilots isn't unreasonable. However, consider that most every commissioned officer will be REQUIRED to be shuttle-pilot certified, you can maybe cut back on the dedicated number of shuttle pilots.

Sorry for the book-of-month. Next post, I want to talk about the org-chart of how divisions / sections are arranged.

Bloody brilliant post, one of the most informative ones I've had the pleasure of reading. Thank you so much! By KP duty I presume you mean Kitchen Patrol? I was thinking of toning down how replicators work (I am dangerously veering into messing with existing canon) because I definitely want a busy and vibrant kitchen and mess hall. Not quite sure how Neelix and Kes alone managed to feed Voyager (so I presume we had unseen crewmmembers on Kitchen Patrol at other times!).

I've already began to account for all the 'Watch Stations'; which are the 24/7 manned stations (is that terminology right?). Currently I have three people to a station minimum, but maybe four would work better.

Pilots sounds like a bit of a nightmare, but having commissioned officers (especially in the command track) be pilot certified might solve it. I might have to show how various crewmembers are rated to do different jobs: I really really wanted to have some 'cross contamination' between some of the biomedical science folks in the Science Division with the Medical Division. Will have to work on it.


Alright I don't have time to read everyone's posts but here goes.


Training would take up a massive amount of time. Training for every possibility, and cross training.

Tactical officers would literally spend most of there time sitting and thinking of contingencies that could occur.

What if the breen attack, are we close to the romulans etc.

Engineers would be planning refits, maintenance upgrades etc.

They'd also be involved in retrofitting the ship for mission specifications.

Furthermore there would be a massive amount of research going on at all times. What was just a planet of the week to the captain was likely months of research for some young enlisty.

I'd put the 10 percent of actual time as on duty.

30 percent for training/cross training.

30 for program planning.

and another 30 for research.

All sounds good.


Chances are it'd be something closer to a logistics officer.

A guy that tracks supplies, predicts upcoming needs for supplies etc.

I.e. decides when there is too much of a resource that isn't needed for the given needs of the ship mission.

Or decides what medical supplies are needed, for helping civilization x.


Granted everyone on the ship would be working with other folk.

Yeah I like that. Currently have that in my newest Update (check the previous page for the big images!!).
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

There is no such thing as realistic. If you want realistic, you can not have transporters, warp drives, phasers, clones, and the borg.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

There is no such thing as realistic. If you want realistic, you can not have transporters, warp drives, phasers, clones, and the borg.
There's degree's of realism.


by definition all fiction isn't reality.

And transporters is one that clearly makes no sense.

Not because of limitations of advanced physics but because of basic reason.

It's essentially a tech that makes total replication possible.

If this is the case there would be no shortages of top of the line ships in the universe which is clearly not the case.


Some techs are so stupid a 4 year old could figure them out.

It's not if something is possible, its about what isn't possible once that happens.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

There is no such thing as realistic. If you want realistic, you can not have transporters, warp drives, phasers, clones, and the borg.

I meant functionally realistic, as in the crew was made up of positions and ranks that made logical sense in the real world.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Pilots sounds like a bit of a nightmare
Oh, so you've worked with pilots, too? :lol: I was a weather forecaster and had to brief them before their flights. Army helo jocks are pretty cool, and most USAF heavy drivers are okay, but fighter pilots are the worst.

Our biggest self-inflicted wound was how we treated our people. Other career fields had far better work schedules. Last time I deployed, I had a three-man shop (including myself) to run 24/7 ops for 90+ days. The other two duty sections in my building had five-man teams. I was told I had the option of 4-on/2-off or 2-on/1-off 12-hour shifts, flipping days to nights and back each rotation. We said *bleep* that, we're too danged old to kill ourselves with that sleep pattern, and so we worked straight 8-hour shifts, one of each per shift days/swings/mids, no flipping around but zero days off for 99 days. The worst schedule I've ever worked was 2-days/2-swings/2-mids/3-off. After a month or so of that, I wanted to kill the person who suggested it to the boss. We did that for eight months before a new boss came in and said "Now, that's just blinking stupid!"

By KP duty I presume you mean Kitchen Patrol?
Yes. But if not that, there's always something that needs swept, mopped, painted, or shined & polished on a ship. Starships are probably no different.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

With the transporters and replicators there is no such thing as dirt.

:D
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Alright for a laugh I'd do it how I'd want it, missing a tonne but I think you can see what I'm aiming for.

I'm doing it in a slightly different style, as I have a core member requirements and a rotation pool included for each section.

Engineering 1/3 crew. (100 folk)

Section 1: Ops(bridge posting)
5-6 max, all officers usually juniors, with one senior lieutenant or LTCDR if they are part of the senior staff.



Section 2: Power grid installation and maintenance.
Including routing to the weapon systems.

Section 3: Logistics (Either a posting for ensign/or for a petty officer 1st class)
Core 4-5 Pool of 2

Section 4: Fabrication centre ( industrial replicators) Either a posting for ensign/or for a petty officer 1st class
Core: 6 Pool: 4

Section 5: Retrofit Planning( A team devoted to planning for the next drydock) Senior LU or Senior Chief Petty
Core of 2, with a pool of 30.

Section 6: Standards( People ensure that the ship reflects legal/design standards of the sector they are now travelling through). Managed by either a Senior Lu or LTCDR, position often used as a stepping stone to hire management.
Core of 3 pool of 8.
Often can draw in people from medicine/science/command.


Section 8: Investigations (mostly used for accidents and the like that happen off ship.)
Core 2-3 members with usually an experience noncom and a highly educated but junior officer(, 8-20 pool(from all divisions).

Section 9: Warp corp
Core of 20 pool of 2(warp filed educated science O)

Section 10: Deployment section. Responsible for away missions
Core of 24, that often act as the pool for other divisions such as investigations.

Section 11:Cargo In charge of cargo and shuttle launches.
Core 8 no pool.
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

So, while I'm typing another book-of-the-month message (which I'll post later), my wife who happens to be a retired Navy Yeoman finds this document: http://www.militaryresearch.org/1944%20DE%20Organization.pdf

Incredible, isn't it?? Granted, there's a lot that doesn't fit the Trek universe, but it's a heck of a starting point, no?
 
Re: Creating a realistic crew manifest for a Starship. Ideas & comment

Autistoid kinda beat me to the punch. I wanted to talk about the different divisions / departments of a ship, too. So here goes.

- Command: Captain, Exec = First Officer, Ops Officer = Second Officer, Chief Navigator = Third Officer. The Command Chief / Chief of the Boat may be a full-time duty slot or may be an additional duty for the ranking Chief Petty Officer. Note: the crew on my ships are about 15% commissioned officers and 85% enlisted (5% Chiefs (one E-8 Senior Chief), 70% Petty Officers, 10% Able Crewmen / Crewmen First Class). I don't list Ensigns as they fill LT-jg billets, and I fill all the jobs with Petty Officer and have AC/C1C scattered about the sections as trainees aka "extra bodies".

- Operations Division
-- Bridge Crew: Watch Officer (aka Navigator), Quartermaster - Nav, Quartermaster - Helm, Communications, Sensor/Scanner Operator. As mentioned in a previous post you need four or five of each for shift rotation. Other than the Navigator, these are all usually enlisted personnel manning the stations, but Ensigns/ LT-jg will cycle thru the section for training and experience. Larger ships might also have crew to monitor internal systems such as life support and the like. During combat situations, there'd be bridge crew to monitor defensive systems, weapons, and power systems.
-- Operations Support:
--- Secondary Systems: Transporter, Tractor, Defensive Systems, etc.
--- Information Technology (could be a department under Operations or Engineering, or even a separate division): Maintains all computer and communications equipment. May have programmers to write custom applications.
--- Intelligence: Receive and review intel reports from HQ, writes same to send up to HQ, briefs captain on same, analyze sensor data and other current tactical data to assist command in determining threat level, etc.
--- Communications: On a smaller ship, may be combined with Intelligence. Don't forget to include cryptology and linguistic personnel.

- Science Department: Could be one geeky officer who has this as an additional duty, or it could be a full-blown division with several departments and many research specialty sections. I'm not touching this one right now.

- Weapons: On smaller ships ships, this will fall under Operations, but I'm listing I here as its own division. I noticed that most of the other crew lists on Trek-BBS title this as "Tactical", but that word means something else entirely to me.
-- A Chief Weapons Officer, and depending on the ship's size / number of weapons, three to five junior Weapons Officers.
--- Photon Torpedoes (Klingons = Disruptors / Romulans = Plasma Torpedoes) ... I list three or four crewmen per tube, plus a supervisor over the entire bank (usually four tubes on a cruiser-size ship). Note: in the game Star Fleet Battles, Photons are pure-energy, and thus you have an "unlimited" supply of them. In my world, you have a large but still limited number of physical fuses the size of a toaster, but the torpedo itself is still energy, or perhaps a magnetic field holding a small amount of anti-matter. The physical torpedo was introduced in the movie because they needed a coffin-sized case. If you go that route, either have some way for the ship to make more, or keep count until you run out. Don't pull a Voyager, dang it!
--- Phaser Banks (both offensive and defensive phases) ... I list two crewmen per mount, but sometimes I'll cheat and put three men per pair of phasers in the same bank. (Usually six to eight offensive phasers and two to four defensive phasers on a cruiser-size ship.)
--- Drone Launcher (from the game SFB) aka self-guiding Missiles ... if so equipped ... I list three or four crewmen per launcher
--- Transporter Bombs ... One person handle them, but I'd put two there for safety.
--- Space Mines (must be dropped out of a hatch as they are too big to beam out via transporter) ... very few ships in SFB have these ... two or three crewmen per mine rack.
--- Science Probe Launcher ... Not normally manned, send in someone from another weapon if you need it.

- Engineering
-- Officers = Chief Engineer and two to four Assistant Engineers, plus six to eight (or more) junior Engineering Officers on larger ships.
-- Engine Room: monitors Warp Drive and Impulse Drive ... must be manned 24/7while underway.
-- Secondary Power Systems: monitors Auxiliary Reactor, AC Electrical Power Generators, and also other systems including Life Support, Gravity Generators, and the like. Transfers ballast (i.e., pumping water between tanks) to adjust ship's Center of Gravity / Weight & Balance.
-- Maintenance / Repair / Fabrication (Damage Control): Made up of about half Boatswain's Mates and half specialist ratings. They inspect and fix pretty much everything on the ship from plumbing / electric to overhauling a dilithium chamber, from fixing a stuck door to rebuilding the navigational deflector array.
---- Someone suggested a "Refit Planning" section .... I say "No, this would be a continuing duty of the Chief Engineer."

- Shuttle Bay
-- Shuttlecraft Pilots ... already spoke at length about them
-- Deck Crew: It normally take three or four personnel to ready a shuttle for flight (four to seven for fighters / attack shuttles and the Runabouts). It takes ten or twelve to do a major inspection / overhaul (i.e., once ever 250 or 500 flight-hours).

- Medical ... self-explanatory, can be as small or large as you think you need. Don't forget to include field corpsmen / combat medics.

- Security / Tactical / Marines: In the Star Fleet Battles universe, this section is entirely Marines (except on Police cutters). In my world, there are both Star Fleet security personnel to protect the ship and guard the brig, and Marines for the away missions / boarding party actions. In my world, Security is a cadre of Master-at-Arms (military police) supplemented by a larger number of Boatswain's Mates and other general crew on a rotational basis. How many crewmen you need in your security department is up to you, but I've seen crew lists with crazy high and stupid low numbers.

- Ship's Services: All the odds and ends that don't fit easily into another department.
-- Food services ... My ship serves real food, albeit in pre-cooked & reheated TrayPacks, with one or two "cooks" on duty with several crewmen pulling KP duty. But even with replicator technology, you still need someone to maintain the system.
-- Supply / storekeeper / logistics ... unless you let the replicator fill all your needs out of thin air.
-- Janitorial ... usually an additional duty for a junior officer, and staff filled by general crew on a rotational basis.
-- Recreation ... ditto.
-- Barber shop ... usually covered by off-duty crewmen earning some extra money.

- Admin Support ... not a separate department, but listing it here for clarity.
-- Yeomen (aka Admin Clerk) ... Again, depends on the size of the ship, but figure a 400-man cruiser would have five or six Yeomen (one or two in Command section, the others scattered to the other departments), to assist in Personnel Performance Reports and other records keeping. (For comparison, there would be at least fifty or sixty Yeomen on a Star Base.)
-- Training Office ... as I talked about in a previous post, you need someone to track Certification & Upgrade Training and to schedule mass training seminars. This office does NOT teach the material but rather assigns a subject matter expert (SME) to give the lecture. On smaller ships, this will be a Yeoman's additional duty, but on a larger ship a Yeoman will have this job full-time.
-- Legal ... I doubt you'd have a JAG lawyer on a ship as that's more of a Star Base function, but you might have a Legalman or at least a Yeoman who has cross-trained as a para-legal.
-- Inspector General ... again, this is a function of a Star Base, but the ship's captain will assign this as an additional duty to a senior officer (usually Chief Navigator or Chief Engineer) if he needs an in-depth investigation on something.
-- Safety Officer ... an additional duty for a mid-grade officer. Each section will assign Safety Rep as an additional duty to a mid-tier petty officer or an Ensign.
-- Chaplin ... unlikely for a ship to have one officially assigned, but often someone will volunteer for the job.

Okay, I think I'm done for now, but I have a feeling I missed something or a dozen somethings.
 
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