Court Martial is really an odd episode

[GSchnitzer]

It's not as if the psychotricorder of "Wolf in the Fold" is ever exactly described as a lie detector, either. Rather, it is credited with the powers of giving the heroes a "detailed account" on what has happened to Scotty in the past twenty-four hours. Sounds like the device, if applied properly, would be able to recover and record Scotty's experiences and sensations somehow, playing back his memories. Hard to tell if that would help in determining whether those memories are truthful or not.

Timo Saloniemi

I actually was not referring to the psychotricorder. In the briefing room Scott puts his hand on a pad and the computer is able to tell without fail whether he is lying or not.

The "psycho-tricorder", BTW, is another device that is mentioned in only one episode of Trek . . . and it figures that it was Robert Bloch who came up with the concept. Get it? PSYCHO-tricorder??

Also, in "Journey to Babel," Mister Spock makes the comment about Thelev the "Andorian:" He has been subjected to questioning under Verifier Scan and truth drug; he reveals nothing." So evidently there is some kind "extract the truth" technology that they can and do employ.

 

[MikeH92467]

Yeah, yeah, I knew you f*#@s would be all over it if I didn't clarify.

Damn woman, that frying pain liked to kill me!!!

 

[Timo]

So evidently there is some kind "extract the truth" technology that they can and do employ.

But in none of the examples is it indicated to be infallible, which was the OP's concern.

These drugs don't get the job done. The psychotricorder was not indicated to be infallible. The device working on Harry Mudd achieved little. The Klingon mind-sifter failed utterly. So these wouldn't have made much of a difference in Kirk's trial, either.

Then again, everybody in that trial does place his or her hand on that odd device:

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_118.JPG

I rather doubt it's a futuristic holy book, despite its use as the dramatic analogue to one.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Greg Cox]

The "psycho-tricorder", BTW, is another device that is mentioned in only one episode of Trek . . . and it figures that it was Robert Bloch who came up with the concept. Get it? PSYCHO-tricorder??

But, you know, it wouldnt hurt a fly . . . .

 

[xortex]

It's not as if the psychotricorder of "Wolf in the Fold" is ever exactly described as a lie detector, either. Rather, it is credited with the powers of giving the heroes a "detailed account" on what has happened to Scotty in the past twenty-four hours. Sounds like the device, if applied properly, would be able to recover and record Scotty's experiences and sensations somehow, playing back his memories. Hard to tell if that would help in determining whether those memories are truthful or not.

Timo Saloniemi

I actually was not referring to the psychotricorder. In the briefing room Scott puts his hand on a pad and the computer is able to tell without fail whether he is lying or not.

The "psycho-tricorder", BTW, is another device that is mentioned in only one episode of Trek . . . and it figures that it was Robert Bloch who came up with the concept. Get it? PSYCHO-tricorder??

Also, in "Journey to Babel," Mister Spock makes the comment about Thelev the "Andorian:" He has been subjected to questioning under Verifier Scan and truth drug; he reveals nothing." So evidently there is some kind "extract the truth" technology that they can and do employ.

Except that in 'The Courtmarshal' Spock tells the computer that he's incapable of lying and yet two seasons later he's blatently lying to a Gideon high official about having fixed the broken transporter when there was nothing wrong with it to trick him into allowing him to beam down, so my theory is that Vulcans can fool the Technology and are lying when they say they can't. They're telepathic after all.

 

[Timo]

Or simply very good at self-control. If this futuristic lie-detecting technology is based on the polygraph principle of observing involuntary reactions, then Vulcans probably indeed never get caught in a lie...

Good catch in any case!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lee]

No one called me on it, but apparently Cogley did say he never uses his own computer. So, I'm going to say he's lying. Lawyers need up-to-date information, and that wouldn't be printed in books.

In my line of work I get to observe a lot of lawyers. Often I'll see very intelligent lawyers putting on an act or doing shtick, like the "old country lawyer" routine, as a method of getting people to underestimate them.

So perhaps Cogley was deliberately doing his Luddite shtick to keep his client (Kirk) and his opposing counsel off guard.

 

[Mr_Homn]

Is there any evidence of pure blooded Vulcans that lie? Perhaps Spock can lie because he is half human.


(of course i think its ridiculous to say that vulcans are incapable of lying, it just defies all logic. it's obvious a convenient plot device that is forgotten when required by the script... i was just wondering...)

 

[CoveTom]

Is there any evidence of pure blooded Vulcans that lie? Perhaps Spock can lie because he is half human.

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

 

[Mr_Homn]

Is there any evidence of pure blooded Vulcans that lie? Perhaps Spock can lie because he is half human.

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

Ah, thanks.. I should revise my question then...

Is there any evidence of a pure blooded vulcan who lies in on of the good star trek shows?

(i keeed, i keeed... sorta...)

 

[Captrek]

Is there any evidence of pure blooded Vulcans that lie? Perhaps Spock can lie because he is half human.

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

He's a n. We're talking about pure-blooded Aryan Vulcans.

 

[Mr_Homn]

Is there any evidence of pure blooded Vulcans that lie? Perhaps Spock can lie because he is half human.

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

He's a n. We're talking about pure-blooded Aryan Vulcans.

Ballsy post but funny nonetheless

 

[Gotham Central]

Is there any evidence of pure blooded Vulcans that lie? Perhaps Spock can lie because he is half human.

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

He's a n. We're talking about pure-blooded Aryan Vulcans.

Valeris

 

[Mr_Homn]

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

He's a n. We're talking about pure-blooded Aryan Vulcans.

Valeris

Of course, Valeris too. Slipped my mind.

Still, I'm kind of surprised that they were pretty consistent through TOS and TNG (excluding movies) about the whole "vulcan not lying thing" once you take into account spock's half human heritage.

 

[xortex]

Unless it was all a dream Mr. Spock had. Mr. spock was actually a spider who fancied himself a devilshly handsome pointy eared alien.

 

[Warped9]

In the episode Spock's says he cannot lie. Thats misdirection. It could be interpreted that Spock as a Vulcan is supposedly so adherent to logic and honour that he shouldn't have to lie or cannot wilfully tell a lie.

Vulcans can, of course, lie. There are also such things as lies by omission. If it serves no purpose you can refrain from saying more than you absolutely need to. That can certainly changed the meaning or context of what you're saying when you hold something back.

Spock definitely lied in "The Enterprise Incident." He not only lied to the Romulan Commander by allowing her to believe that he was seriously considering defection to the Romulan Empire. He also lied about Kirk's mental stability and supposedly erratic behaviour. He also lied to his shipmates in supporting Kirk's cover story (mental exhaustion) to cross into the Neutral Zone.

 

[Green Shirt]

Is there any evidence of pure blooded Vulcans that lie? Perhaps Spock can lie because he is half human.

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

Ah, thanks.. I should revise my question then...

Is there any evidence of a pure blooded vulcan who lies in on of the good star trek shows?

(i keeed, i keeed... sorta...)

Does Sarek's keeping his medical condition secret from Amanda count as lying?

 

[Sindatur]

He's a n. We're talking about pure-blooded Aryan Vulcans.

Valeris

Of course, Valeris too. Slipped my mind.

Still, I'm kind of surprised that they were pretty consistent through TOS and TNG (excluding movies) about the whole "vulcan not lying thing" once you take into account spock's half human heritage.

Ambassador Soval (Gary Graham) and Ambassador V'Lar (Fionnula Flanagan) from Enterprise are also Lily White as you can get. And let's not forget that little Minx T'Pau.

Warped9, the reason they can't lie, is because they are so good at excusing themselves and looking at it so it does serve a truth.

Green Shirt, I'm not sure, was he under the influence of the sickness? But, yea, probably it does count as lying.

 

[Captrek]

Tuvok lies rather convincingly to Chakotay and manages to infiltrate his Maquis ship as a result. To the best of my knowledge, Tuvok is a full-blooded Vulcan.

Ah, thanks.. I should revise my question then...

Is there any evidence of a pure blooded vulcan who lies in on of the good star trek shows?

(i keeed, i keeed... sorta...)

Does Sarek's keeping his medical condition secret from Amanda count as lying?

If so, then Sakkath's initially hiding Sarek's Bendii Syndrome from Picard (and from Sarek himself) would constitute the same kind of lie.

 

[Knight Templar]

People don't always define a "lie" as willingly, and knowingly telling a falsehood.

To some people a "lie" is only when a person willingly and knowingly tells a falsehood for personal gain and that telling a falsehood for a higher purpose (protecting someone else, advancing the aims of an organization you have an obligation to serve) is not a lie.