Full marks on both points!!!! Especially as to the latter one, it makes a reflection of their experience all the more moving!!
Course: Oblivion
- Thread starter Melakon
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Full marks on both points!!!! Especially as to the latter one, it makes a reflection of their experience all the more moving!!
It's meaninglessness, because the biomimetic lifeforms were at their core non-sentient class Y goo. At the end, they reverted back to their non-sentient nature, which robbed them of their ability to discern meaning. That's a perfectly nihilistic narrative, and all the more so since their journey was ultimately an exercise in futility.
As for the magic solution, that it would have been easier to find one during a layover at a class Y planet was perfectly obvious. It was biomimetic-Janeway's boneheadedness (if you'll pardon the pun) that doomed the duplicate ship to destruction.
As for the magic solution, that it would have been easier to find one during a layover at a class Y planet was perfectly obvious. It was biomimetic-Janeway's boneheadedness (if you'll pardon the pun) that doomed the duplicate ship to destruction.
I always like this ep; for the party, for the stuff we'd never see; for the differences. I feel sadder for this crew than I do for pretty much anything else in Star Trek (and I've been watching since 1966). The only thing that might compete with this for me in the Kleenex department is Troi's baby.
They wrecked the baby 2.0 in the books. Or rather, they wrecked Troi because apparently you can't have a baby without turning into an angst swamp. She should have had a nice regular baby in the show with someone (not Riker) and been happy. It could have been all precocious and there would have been hilarious scenes where it bluntly yet innocently talked about what people were feeling and embarrassed everyone.
I'm only talking about the pg parts of varying relaunch books, the Erika Hernandez trilogy probably. And some of the VOY relaunch. The pg parts with Crusher and Troi are just vile with all the soap opera angst they have with the fathers.
If Kirsten gives Janeway a baby I will be horrified!
(But if Kirsten gives Janeway and Tom their lizard babies morphed into humans I will be ecstatic, and all angst will be forgiven. I am sure Chak would have an angst meltdown over this.)
I'm glad to hear Troi is enjoying her baby! I didn't read the Titan books, though I have a bunch of them. I am so far behind.
If Kirsten gives Janeway a baby I will be horrified!
(But if Kirsten gives Janeway and Tom their lizard babies morphed into humans I will be ecstatic, and all angst will be forgiven. I am sure Chak would have an angst meltdown over this.)
I'm glad to hear Troi is enjoying her baby! I didn't read the Titan books, though I have a bunch of them. I am so far behind.
OH right right. Well I hated her pregnancy, I could barely stand to read it. And I hated Crusher's for the same reasons. They reduced middle aged starfleet officers to days of our lives victims.
Now I feel bad, having come in and coming across as bashing the show. I really should point out the parts I liked.
I thought Robert Duncan Macneill (sp.) was very good at B'elana's death bed. Very understated and quite moving actually. He was very believable.
The Captain Janeway copy didn't survive till the bitter end. So often Captains have superhuman resistance to diseases and phenomenon which strike down everyone else.
I thought Robert Duncan Macneill (sp.) was very good at B'elana's death bed. Very understated and quite moving actually. He was very believable.
The Captain Janeway copy didn't survive till the bitter end. So often Captains have superhuman resistance to diseases and phenomenon which strike down everyone else.
I always liked McNeill's work on the series, and he directed some good episodes, like "Body and Soul". He nearly missed out on being Paris. When he was asked to audition, the appointment was right in the middle of a play he was working on in New York, making about $300 a week. He turned them down, because everyone in the play would have been out of work if he had left town to read. To his surprise, Star Trek offered to reschedule the audition until after the show closed.
He seems like a swell guy.
The story of McNeill's turning down the audition is in Stephen E. Poe's A Vision of the Future-- Star Trek Voyager (1998). It has a lot of information on the early years of developing the show, and includes Jeri Ryan's arrival. The book doesn't always present things chronologically however.
Some attention is paid to controversial "Indian expert" Jamake Highwater's involvement, before he was later discredited.
Poe had written the granddaddy of Star Trek books, The Making of Star Trek, under the name Stephen E. Whitfield.
Some attention is paid to controversial "Indian expert" Jamake Highwater's involvement, before he was later discredited.
Poe had written the granddaddy of Star Trek books, The Making of Star Trek, under the name Stephen E. Whitfield.
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According to wikipedia the "expert" was exposed in 1984. So someone totally failed.
This episode is bleak as fuck and that's why I like it. I mean, they came thiiiiis close to letting their story be known, until: Boop! Sorry! Your existence was meaningless.
I hated it when I first saw it but after processing it for a few years and watching it again I realized it was actually genius.
I hated it when I first saw it but after processing it for a few years and watching it again I realized it was actually genius.
And Roxanne Dawson wasn't too shabby in the director's chair herself, based on what I saw of her work on Enterprise.
I like this episode very much, although I'd be at a loss to explain why. Maybe they could have just changed the ending without compromising the show. Janeway and her crew find the probe with the recordings of the other ship and for a while they muse about them and then Janeway says something along the lines of what captain Sisko says about the Children Of Time in the eponymous episode: "They existed. As long as we remember them, they always will."
... THE END!
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And he stole that from McCoy in Wrath of Khan.
Indeed, it's the last episode of season 4: Hope and Fear.
Every time I see it, I can't help from mentally urging Tuvok to give a little more thought and reflection after saying the following:
"I'm detecting residual deuterium, anti-neutrons, traces of dichromates. If it was a vessel, it isn't anymore."
Now, would it have been too far a stretch to have him or someone question the logic or likelihood of the presence of the latter in the ship's debris field, perhaps somehow also recalling their relatively recent interaction with a lifeform comprised of the same, combined with the telltale silver blobs visible on the viewscreen and.... Hell, I guess I'm just detracting from the power of the conceit as it was actually executed.
