Course: Oblivion

[Melakon]

This episode is not one of my favorites, and I don't have "Demon", which doesn't help, but I've seen it and know the setup vaguely.

Other than the wedding, Paris' rank, and B'Elanna's early fate, are there additional clues that we're not seeing what we think we're seeing?

 

[Kevman7987]

The sudden unveiling of the slipstream drive and some vague references to earlier alien contacts that we never saw.

 

[Melakon]

Yeah, not having all the seasons puts me at a disadvantage watching it

 

[BruntFCA]

I've always wondered if this episode as well as the Equinox 2 parter were kind of like an inside joke by the writers in response to the fans that wanted continuity and character development.

Edited to add- I haven't seen this episode in a long time so I'm a bit foggy. What's up with the enhanced warp drive, did they develop it or get it from another species?

 

[diankra]

On the whole, I've always rather liked Course: Oblivion; it was one of the few episode that lived up to Brannon Braga's ambition of having Voyager be a bit like The Twilight Zone, able to take you by surprise.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

The mere fact that B'Elanna and Seven were being more than civil... and that Seven was considering dating?

 

[Pondwater]

I wonder if they encountered any other Delta Quadrant species during their existence. It has been a while since I have seen this episode too.

 

[Ro_Laren]

I always thought this episode was interesting. Part of it is the title. Doesn't "Course: Oblivion" seem like a unique Trek episode title?

 

[Melakon]

You mean like TOS: Operation: Annihilate! ?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

One major problem with "Course: Oblivion" is that it's a gratuitous and unnecessary sequel. "Demon" was pretty good, and its ending with the biomimetic copies of the whole crew surrounding Voyager as it lifts off is one of this series' memorable scenes. It wasn't necessary to cheapen that moment in order to tell a story of no consequence.

Further, the biomimetic copies in "C:O" don't even make decisions that are are true to the real characters, and that is perhaps its biggest problem. About all there is to get out of "C:O" is that the copies weren't perfect, which is hardly a surprise.

 

[Drone]

I take it you're not impressed by the oft mentioned line of thought about it's being noteworthy, if not somewhat remarkable, perhaps for this iteration of Trek anyway, for its nihilistic and utterly non-redemptive message. Well for me, considering the episode without delving too seriously on how it logically flows from its antecedent, I find it quite emotionally affecting, with a strange poignance that never fails to resonate after many, many viewings.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

This episode is not one of my favorites, and I don't have "Demon", which doesn't help, but I've seen it and know the setup vaguely.

Here, you can watch it legally with the blessing of startrek.com:


http://www.startrek.com/watch_episode/0Hryb3odkNGD

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Course: Oblivion is one of my favorite episodes of the series. I don't really see it as a sequel, because Demon is mediocre. You don't even need to know about Demon to watch the episode, all you need to know is that duplicates of the crew were made.

The big hints that the crew is not the regular Voyager crew come in the fact that they are talking about getting home in just a couple years. That's one of the fun things about the episode, the duplicates were MORE successful than the real Voyager.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I take it you're not impressed by the oft mentioned line of thought about it's being noteworthy, if not somewhat remarkable, perhaps for this iteration of Trek anyway, for its nihilistic and utterly non-redemptive message.

No, I'm not. Nihilism for the sake of nihilism in order to have been nihilistic is not something that I consider praiseworthy. If there had been a genuine tragedy of futility, involving characters who had been true to their natures and who had tried in vain, then I might have been impressed. Instead there were only one-dimensional characters who were simply plot devices to bring circumstances arbitrarily to the point of nihilism.

Biomimetic-Janeway's decision to press on was not one that the real Janeway would have made. The real Janeway would have taken the ship to a class Y planet, if she had discovered that the crew couldn't survive anywhere else. Once the decision is made to press on, and the title has more or less given the ending away, we know that there is nothing to sympathize with, because there is nobody really home in these biomimetic duplicates, which is also true even by their own admission.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I've always wondered if this episode as well as the Equinox 2 parter were kind of like an inside joke by the writers in response to the fans that wanted continuity and character development.

Edited to add- I haven't seen this episode in a long time so I'm a bit foggy. What's up with the enhanced warp drive, did they develop it or get it from another species?

The slipstream is an invention of the big brained guy aka Arturis, his species is extremely smart, they can learn a language just by listening to a couple of sentences, kinda like Hoshi Sato but better, he's the only one that escaped assimilation by the borg and wants to get Janeway and all her crew because he considers that she's responsible for the fate of his people... long story. So he created a false star fleet ship that actually worked using slipstream technology. It's a flawed technique though, that we are to assume that the false Janeway and her crew managed to improve upon.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

This episode is not one of my favorites, and I don't have "Demon", which doesn't help, but I've seen it and know the setup vaguely.

Here, you can watch it legally with the blessing of startrek.com:


http://www.startrek.com/watch_episode/0Hryb3odkNGD

Thanks for the link, Ms. Cake!

I watched, and it was pretty good! I vaguely recall seeing at least bits and pieces of it before, but didn't recollect the whole gist of it.

The ending was a bit abrupt...maybe they could have trimmed the Neelix/Doctor stuff and devote more time to fleshing out some of the details of the life form on the planet...but either way, it held my interest.

I do recall Course: Oblivion, though, and now it's kinda sad to see that these life forms ended up the way they did in it. However...where did they get the duplicate Voyager from?!

Oh waaait. There is one other thing: what's this about those environmental suits having back-up systems? How does a back-up system seal an environmental suit? And if it can, why the computer warning about system failure? That's just crazy talk...

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I watched, and it was pretty good! I vaguely recall seeing at least bits and pieces of it before, but didn't recollect the whole gist of it.

The ending was a bit abrupt...maybe they could have trimmed the Neelix/Doctor stuff and devote more time to fleshing out some of the details of the life form on the planet...but either way, it held my interest.

I do recall Course: Oblivion, though, and now it's kinda sad to see that these life forms ended up the way they did in it. However...where did they get the duplicate Voyager from?!

Oh waaait. There is one other thing: what's this about those environmental suits having back-up systems? How does a back-up system seal an environmental suit? And if it can, why the computer warning about system failure? That's just crazy talk...

Having slept on it, I have to take some of this praise back, unfortunately.

They never did resolve the issue of the deuterium search. I don't even recall a "Oh well, better luck elsewhere" type of resolution.

That liquid life form that morphed into Tom and Harry: did they actually think they were Tom and Harry, or did they just act like them for some reason? I just couldn't tell.

I liked the idea of the episode, but I've got to say it reminds me of when a politician answers a question: the answer can sound good, but upon reflection you realize that they dodged the question!

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I take it you're not impressed by the oft mentioned line of thought about it's being noteworthy, if not somewhat remarkable, perhaps for this iteration of Trek anyway, for its nihilistic and utterly non-redemptive message.

Biomimetic-Janeway's decision to press on was not one that the real Janeway would have made. The real Janeway would have taken the ship to a class Y planet, if she had discovered that the crew couldn't survive anywhere else.

I disagree there. Janeway has always had 100% Ahab focus on getting the crew home, making rash decisions and taking on faith that the crew will rise to the occasion. If that weren't the case Scorpion would have never happened. And Chakotay took his usual role of throwing cold water on Janeway's Ahabian insanity.

I don't think the show was nihilism for the sake of nihilism. It made statements about the nature of identity, in the way they held on to their identities even after discovering they weren't real. Their identity was trying to get to the alpha quadrant, and they gradually let go of that identity. And at the end they were struggling just to have their identity remembered by somebody, before it was completely obliterated. I would call it 'Existential' more than nihilistic, and it's one of the only Voyager episodes that begs that kind of discussion.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"C:O" perfectly fits nihilism, both in the sense of meaninglessness and as an exercise in futility. Saying that the real Janeway would pursue a course of certain destruction, when there is an available alternative that offers a chance of survival and the opportunity to regroup, is to reduce her to a caricature.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It wasn't a path of certain destruction, it was a path of probable destruction. She had a deep seated belief that her crew would come up with some magical solution to stop the degradation.

And it wasn't meaningless. They traveled as Voyager for eight months, accomplished meaningful things. The fact that they failed to communicate their existence to the real Voyager doesn't strip that time of its meaning.