Course Oblivion opinions?

[Zander]

I just rewatched this episode last night (along with Demon). A really good epiosde imho for the fact it doesn't let the audience in on them being the copies until after B'elanna dies. There's the relief that the real crew's fine but also the tragedy that the copy crew are dying. Janeway's insistence on getting back to Earth and not returning to Demon is frustrating - this has been her main purpose which has kept her going all these years, she can't easily switch to a different way of thinking. Seeing the copy crew die at the end without anyone knowing about them was tragic but it's one of the few episodes showing things don't always work out in the end.

A few inconsistencies in the episode as some others have mentioned - how could they breathe non-Demon air when that was previously a problem (perhaps they adapted)? How could they spend all that time not knowing they were replicas considering the EMH extracted... silver blood (?) from Tom and Harry in Demon (again, maybe these were more perfect replicas)? How could they have memories when just cloned from DNA as mentioned in Demon (possibly some sci-fi science excuse)? How did they replicate the ship AND the EMH (some silver blood covertly traveled around Voy in Demon taking notes)? When Tuvok is looking at logs it shows the encounter at Demon from Voy's perspective (copy crew must have faked logs... because they wanted to forget the truth??)? How come the copy crew never went to a planet Voy had been to - not one! - and met people who said "Hey, you're back!"? How come copy crew are nearly back to Demon and encounter Voy which would mean Voy had hardly made any progress? And probably loads more...

Not that I care about these little things... overall, an enjoyable - and memorable! - episode.

 

[Scottponfarr]

This episode is extremely confusing, because who have we been following since the demon episode?? The copied ship? If so how far along on the journey is the real crew?

 

[Paul Weaver]

This episode is extremely confusing, because who have we been following since the demon episode?? The copied ship? If so how far along on the journey is the real crew?

We know "Thirty Days" occurred to the real crew, as Silver-Paris was wearing 2 pips

The story makes no real sense, both the Silver crew and the Real crew were in roughly the same location at the end of the episode.

Although it aired after, it was set before Dark Frontier (20,000 ly jump, and stardate is before Dark Frontier).

Hope and Fear's jump was only 300 light years, which pushes it, but could be argued away in the 6 or so months between Demon and C.O

However Timeless thrust the real voyager (had to be -- Chuckles and Kim survived years longer than their Silver equivelents) 10 years ahead in the journey.

 

[Farscape One]

All episodes after and including "THIRTY DAYS" is the original crew, because of Ensign Paris. Since we saw no evidence of the Delta Flyer in "COURSE: OBLIVION", I tend to discount "EXTREME RISK", "IN THE FLESH", and "ONCE UPON A TIME" as well.

The only real question mark episodes are...

"ONE"
"HOPE AND FEAR"
"NIGHT"... though I tend to discount it, since this was the first time they encounter the Malon and they very quickly met them again in "EXTREME RISK" and were familiar with them.
"DRONE"
"NOTHING HUMAN"

I wonder if there are little clues we can find to discount or prove they are original crew episodes. Sounds like a project...

 

[thribs]

Very sad episode. Especially when you realize how close they were to Voyager at the end.
Oh well...

 

[Paul Weaver]

In night, they jumped 2k light years too

Was Timeless slipstream based on hope and fear’s slipstream?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Did the real Voyager ever detect that those particles in space were from the Demon planet? Surely they'd be in the database since they did copy the ship and crew earlier?

 

[Farscape One]

In night, they jumped 2k light years too

Was Timeless slipstream based on hope and fear’s slipstream?

The term was used in both episodes, so it may very well be the same kind of propulsion. If true, then that may eliminate "HOPE AND FEAR" from the list.

And I just remembered, a crewman died in the beginning of "ONE". He obviously didn't revert back to silver blood form. Could that episode be eliminated due to that?

Also, we could infer that since Ensign Mulcahey's dna was as a template for the One drone, and it certainly appeared to not have any indications of silver blood while being analyzed, this may mean that the only real question mark episode is "NOTHING HUMAN".

 

[Farscape One]

Did the real Voyager ever detect that those particles in space were from the Demon planet? Surely they'd be in the database since they did copy the ship and crew earlier?

They did detect those particles but they likely didn't make the connection.

The ending was particularly brutal when you think of this... Kim and Paris were the first ones duplicated. Kim was the one, however, that had a lot of dialogue in "DEMON" and was the driving force to getting the copies made. So in effect, he was their father. He was the last one standing in "COURSE: OBLIVION", so he got to see EVERYTHING he helped to create be dissolved into nothingness.

It might very well be the saddest ending of the series.

 

[The_Baroness]

Lost opportunity that Voyager, that we saw, never encountered races for the first time that already knew them due having encountered their copies.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

They did detect those particles but they likely didn't make the connection.

The ending was particularly brutal when you think of this... Kim and Paris were the first ones duplicated. Kim was the one, however, that had a lot of dialogue in "DEMON" and was the driving force to getting the copies made. So in effect, he was their father. He was the last one standing in "COURSE: OBLIVION", so he got to see EVERYTHING he helped to create be dissolved into nothingness.

It might very well be the saddest ending of the series.

Yeah this episode gets to me because of the ending.

 

[F. King Daniel]

There was a novel called Battle Lines which is similar (although admittedly not identical) to a story Demon-Chakotay told of one of their Voyager's adventures, so in my mind that book was them.

 

[Farscape One]

I remember that line, and the book.

One could make the argument that several VOYAGER novels ARE the duplicate crew. Easiest way to make them canon...

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It's a pity that duplicate B'elanna and duplicate Doctor didn't come up with a plan to make their condition more long term. Actually did they duplicate the EMH? That means they had copies of all Voyagers files and data.

 

[Farscape One]

They copied the ship itself, which had the Doctor. The bloid needed to directly touch a DNA form to mimic it. Files wouldn't have worked.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The story makes no real sense, both the Silver crew and the Real crew were in roughly the same location at the end of the episode.

Although it aired after, it was set before Dark Frontier (20,000 ly jump, and stardate is before Dark Frontier).

Hope and Fear's jump was only 300 light years, which pushes it, but could be argued away in the 6 or so months between Demon and C.O

The silver crew had an engine upgrade that would have gotten them home in a couple years, so they were far ahead of the real Voyager. They ran into them by pure luck because they turned back.

 

[lurok]

One of the best VOY and Trek episodes.

I don't see the controversy...

 

[Terok Nor]

This episode was just as miserable and depressing as Discovery and Picard. The difference is it was the exception rather than the rule, at least in Discovery's case. Picard Episode 5 was pretty funny in part.

 

[Colbtron]

I'd say it's a very strange episode, narratively; almost the entire episode is told from the perspective of a mimetic substance that has cloned Voyager. Now that's some serious sci fi!

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Heartbreaking story. It amplifies the palpable loneliness the Voyager crew feels and manifests it as forgotten blobs bouncing around in the cold and dark of space. Utterly nihilistic.