Counterpart on Starz

[1001001]

Sooo...is no one else watching anymore?

Looks like my initial suspicions about Claire were right, just misplaced. Poor Quayle. He suddenly suspects, and with good reason, that his wife is actually the mole, but now Aldrich is convinced, and with good reason, that Quayle is the mole. Unless Quayle is suddenly able to think and speak on his feet, he's likely going to be dead very soon.

I found myself beginning to emphasize with Counterpart Howard. Whether it's because we're learning more and more about the nature of his relationship with Counterpart Emily and how it broke down, or it's because how he reacted to the death of his friend, Heinrich, I feel for the guy. Doesn't make up for his cold-hearted assholery of before, but at least I feel like I understand him better and why he ticks the way he does.

Part Howard is becoming more self-assured in his double agent role, but I still wonder how his new confidence will be shattered when he finds out the truth about Part Emily and her connection to Counterpart Howard. Do we already know how he's going to react, having seen the result with Counterpart Howard? Or will he go on another path?

Verbeek's character remains in the shadows, but now we have a sense of her cabal's mission: They want us all dead. Echoes of Fringe...

Yes I'm still watching.

I think this is very interesting, but it's a lot to keep track of!

I was telling my wife this is a show I have to pay complete attention to, and talk to myself throughout to remind myself where we are and who is who.

I would like it if they would get into the more...metaphysical side....of this whole thing. Sure there's the flu and the spying....but how did this happen? What were they doing that could have caused the universe to duplicate itself? It seems the characters don't have a lot of curiosity about that, but that's what I'd be asking.

Anyway, good reveal that the mole is Quayle's wife...that was creepy with her singing to the baby...I thought something was going down right there.

Excellent show overall. Looking forward to more.

 

[Spider]

I just discovered this show and binged through the first six episodes. What a great series! I love this sort of set up with alternate worlds, I'm a sucker for Star Trek alternate universe episodes, and those seasons of Fringe where they were moving back and forth between worlds.

This show has wonderful acting and great characters, I'm definitely a fan. Unlike CBSAA, I'm definitely going to have to keep my subscription to Starz. I haven't seen Outlander, American Gods or Ash yet, but since I'm now paying for them, I'll have to check them out.

Pretty killer lady Baldwin looks better with long hair.

 

[auntiehill]

^American Gods is awesome. It's very much in the spirit of the book.I

Ash is totally not my thing but my husband loves it.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Before this episode, I expected both sides to be morally ambiguous, but no worse than the other despite the divergence 30 years past. Even with the knowledge of the swine flu epidemic, I though perhaps the Counterpart Side was just more harden as a result.

But now it's clear that the Counterpart Side is just as cruel as they think the Part Side is. They're willing to do everything they need to do to emulate the Part Side's lives, even if it means breaking the legs of a young girl while she's conscious, and manipulating and rewriting her entire childhood and life so she can become a soldier in a war she doesn't understand. All of this on the long, long hope that she'll be able to take over the Part girl's life. Hell, they don't even know if any of the people they intend to replace many years in the future will still be alive, let alone hold any kind of key position, even as a diplomat's daughter.

An even darker thought occurs: What if it's all lie? What if the Part Side didn't create the flu on the Counterpart Side? Or that the Part Side simply got it wrong in their belief that the Counterpart Side was responsible?

I initially thought Peter Quayle's almost entire relationship was a fraud because of how early Counterpart Clare embedded herself into the relationship, a relationship that would've had otherwise ended because of his affair. However, the reveal at the end that she considers the relationship genuine as a result of their daughter changes that perspective. We, the viewer, can see that truth because she named her daughter after the childhood sweetheart that was taken away from her as part of her training to suffer, but how can Peter possibly trust her?

Further, how far does that change of heart extend to Clare's actual work? We know she's been smuggling documents out of Peter's safe and we've seen her working with Nadia and her mission, as well as the embed team lead by Lotte Verbeek's character (who now I wonder if she's Ethel, the teenage girl we see in one of the flashbacks), so Clare clearly is still working on the overall operation to harm the Part Side. But does her genuine affection for the relationship extend far enough that Peter can turn her?

But will any of that matter if Aldrich makes a move against Peter first?

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, that was quite a documentary on how Counterpart sleeper agents are created. I don't know how smart it is to deprive a child of affection and then insert them into a ready-made loving relationship as an adult, though-- that seems to be a recipe for defection. But the wife's seemingly genuine feelings for the guy don't seem to have stopped her from her espionage work, as Emh notes, unless there are more revelations to come. We'll see. I have to say, I never liked that guy, but this episode made me feel sorry for him.

And now we've learned that the two sides were almost identical until 1996. Now there's even less time for the two to have diverged so greatly-- it all seems even more unlikely.

I wonder if we'll learn that the Part side has similar programs to embed sleeper agents on the other side.....

 

[auntiehill]

I loved the look at how the girl grew up...nice to get to see the school and how they did things. A really interesting episode. Rather annoyed at stupid boss-boy for blowing it right away.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Yes, Quayle is a compete idiot...they could have strectched one episode... accordingto IBDM, he is in only 9 of 10 episodes...so maybe he is killed (as his stupidity got him).

So Quayle got the job, clearly not from any talent, but by marraige? (ANd his "wfie" persuading daddy?) Hopefully he will show SOMETHING to make him worthy?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

IMDb is hardly conclusive when it comes to future episodes. For all they know, he's in every episode of the season.

I loved the look at how the girl grew up...nice to get to see the school and how they did things. A really interesting episode. Rather annoyed at stupid boss-boy for blowing it right away.

They did a great job of casting young Clare because Lara Decaro looks like a younger version of Nazanin Boniadi.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

That was a really great scene with the two Howards. Fantastic acting by J.K. Simmons. I was surprised that Howard knew all along about his wife and his Go partner. And her being some kind of an operative. I wasn't expecting that i'm glad Howard isn't completely clueless.

 

[auntiehill]

Wonderful confrontation scene. It was great to see our Howard not only stand up for himself but take alt-Howard down a notch. Made me really like our Howard even more.

Oh, and idiot-boy.....*sigh*. He lives up to his nickname. Does he really believe his "original" wife is still alive and well on the other side? Geez. I hope the supervisor is smart enough to not fall for this. Alt-Howard is not someone to fuck with.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I loved the tête-à-tête between the two Howards, especially after they've walked the life in each other's shoes. They both thought they had the upper hand on the other, whether it was intellectually or emotionally. In the end, neither came out of the conversation looking any better. I will be particularly interested in see how Part Howard moves forward, especially knowing that he wasn't entirely fooled by his wife's deceit. Nonetheless, Counterpart Howard withheld knowledge that Part Emily woke up, but uncommunicative. I wonder if he's deliberately holding onto that card for a future engagement between the two.

Peter might be an idiot but he's also doubled fucked, coming from both sides. Counterpart Clare is right that if he turns her in, not only his life is over because of the optics of him being fooled, but their daughter, Spencer, will be completely screwed over, too. But at the same time, he has to hold back Aldrich's completely reasonable suspicions that Peter is the mole. Peter is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. It makes some sense that he's trying to pin the blame on Counterpart Howard as a third option, but it will probably blow up in his face...especially since Counterpart Howard knows it's Counterpart Clare.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

So...again, I wonder. Am I the only one?

That was one of hell of a cliffhanger, made worse by the fact that the conclusion and season finale is in two weeks and not next week. It was also difficult to watch especially in light of continuous public shootings in the US these days.

I am left wondering a few things: The shootings seemed almost surgical in nature, with both Helen (we finally got her name...and now she's dead) and the bespectacled guy seemingly picking out targets instead of shooting whoever, while the mail guy was shooting everyone in sight. Helen in particular didn't seem to bat an eye when she walked pass Roland despite his positional power. What was overall goal? Chaos on the Part Side's intelligence infrastructure? Why was the mail guy trying to get "downstairs" if only to get back to the other side? I thought he was going to blow up the connection but nothing happened. And would destroying that connection even matter considering my previous speculation that there must be another access point due to how Clare and Nadia crossed over with ease despite people on the look out for Nadia?

I've been rather forgiving of Peter the last few episodes, but he really has gone of the rails now. First with how he handled Counterpart Howard and now deliberately crashing his car with him and Clare. Sounds like Clare is still alive (for now) at least.

Part Howard knows the truth about his wife now (although he doesn't know that she's awake and unaware), but will he even be able to get to her anytime soon after what has happened? I have a feeling he's going to be stuck on the Counterpart Side for a long time to come.

Alexander Pope is a real and proper bastard, isn't he? In the end, everyone is going to be gunning after him.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I haven't had a chance to see the last two episodes. Too many other shows to keep up with at the moment. I may have to catch up when everything else is on hiatus.

 

[auntiehill]

Got to watch it tonight. WOW; that was a great episode. Hubby and I were actually telling at the TV , "Get him, get him!"

Idiot-boy Peter proves himself to be Top Idiot; serioulsly, what the fuck was he thinking? Thank God the others weren't nearly as foolish.

Good Lord, I love this show!

 

[ISS-Magnum]

while the mail guy was shooting everyone in sight.

Nope. He was shooting uniformed guards only, 'the red shirts'. He spared at least one civilian, may be two or three.

 

[auntiehill]

^ that is true, but I can see how it would be easy to get confused with all the mayhem. Glasses -guy shoots at everyone between him and the server room, and the woman (Helen?) shot indiscriminately -- everyone in her path--but the mail-room guy saved his bullets for the uniformed guards.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

^ that is true, but I can see how it would be easy to get confused with all the mayhem. Glasses -guy shoots at everyone between him and the server room, and the woman (Helen?) shot indiscriminately -- everyone in her path--but the mail-room guy saved his bullets for the uniformed guards.

Except I felt the opposite happened. Granted I may have missed the mail-room guy only targeting the military, I felt like the glasses guy and especially Helen (with how she completely ignored Roland when he could've been her first logical target) were more precision-based. Maybe I read the scene wrong.

 

[1001001]

Love this show but it takes a lot of attention!

I’m constantly talking to myself: “That’s Howard Prime, he’s in our universe...Quayles wife is is from the other universe...”

More than this old man’s brain can follow!



The scene where Howard was talking to himself in the special communication room was brilliant and brutal.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The season finale was fairly straight forward (aside from one thing), with the requisite hanging threads, of course.

Pope and Aldrich (and Cyrus, too) are all dead. I bet Pope didn't see that poker stick coming, least all from Part Howard.

Peter and Clare have reconciled with each other and their truth, while Peter has struck an uneasy alliance with Counterpart Howard.

Counterpart Howard paid off Nadia to bugger off, and now that she's been cast away from Greta, where will she go now? I certainly hope we see more of Nadia in season 2.

Both Howards are becoming more and more like the others, one more ruthless and the other more kind. Interesting how they've gravitated towards their Other Emilys in the process. The feelings may not be mutual.

The only thing I'm left wondering is where the hell did Ian send Part Howard and for what purpose? Some closet out in the middle of nowhere seems rather odd.

Strange meeting on both sides with Management, to the point that I'm left wondering several things:

1) Are they actual people?
2) If they are, why are they being so damn secretive?
3) Is Management the same thing on both sides? Not similar identities, but actually the same group, controlling both sides for whatever reason.

Great season overall and I look forward to the second season!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Damn, did anyone else watch the finale?

Vox's Todd VanDerWerff wrote an excellent season review. I like his Prime/Alpha labeling better than my own Counter/Part.

Weirdly, the psychological condition Counterpart most makes me think about is body dysmorphia — the idea that you have a vastly distorted idea of what you actually look like, so looking in the mirror to reveal the truth provides a brief shock at best and genuine mental trauma at worst. All these characters think they know who they are, until different versions of themselves step out of the mirror and inform them they have no idea.

It would be tempting to boil down the series to a “nature versus nurture” debate, especially in the case of Clare. Clare Alpha was raised by loving parents; Clare Prime was raised by a secret school that aimed to make her a deadly spy. But what turns Counterpart into more than a fascinating fictional experiment is the way it decides nature versus nurture is a debate that continues inside of us right up until the moment of our deaths.

You can still change. If everybody starts believing that Howard Alpha is Howard Prime, then he will start to become more like Howard Prime. But there is also something about him that is innate, that can repair the relationship with the daughter that is genetically his but that he literally never had. Marks has talked about this in interviews as finding the “true” Howard — locating where Howard genuinely lives on the sliding scale between Alpha and Prime. But I think that’s only half of the picture. We all have masks we wear in different situations. By meeting their other selves, both Howards find new masks to wear when they need to.​