Could the Pike era have worked?

[Harvey]

Lloyd Haynes was in Where No Man Has Gone Before, though, as Lt. Alden (a thankless role, but he was hired as an intended regular).

 

[Kor]

I forgot about Lt. Alden; I guess I need to watch the episode again. (Any excuse to watch an episode of Star Trek )

Kor

 

[xortex]

Roddenberry was told to cast reasonably, which meant no blacks and he said a Captain Pike show would have been a grand adventure.

 

[Warped9]

Well it looks like Hunter could have pulled his weight.

Let's take a look at Majel Barrett.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gPmI0RXbUU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuodlFsfosA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fxJdxL3NJs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdutD094i7w


I dunno. Looking at these clips it looks like Majel could have been reasonably capable. If one were to judge her solely by her performance in "The Cage" it's not hard to think she didn't project much appeal. But it looks more like how the part of Number One was written and directed.

 

[Shark]

I think it would have worked, but there was a distinct lack of diversity in the cast at first and, if not addressed, I think it would have affected the series to some extent. Beyond that you're talking tonal changes due to different actors, Spock mightn't have developed the way he did if Hunter hadn't gone.

 

[Warped9]

It's intriguing to imagine if Spock had been a bit more his usual self (what he became later) from the start and if Number One had been written differently to give Majel a chance to project more.

No matter what I would have ditched Tyler and brought someone non white in as well as added some other types into the background.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Fine. I'll be the confident one.

Yes. In fact it could have worked better.

After that pilot NBC asked Roddenberry for two major changes: Get rid of the guy with the ears and don't make your girlfriend the first officer. Had he done both those things, but fought for a female Number One played by someone else, what you'd be left with is a progressive, unique-for-its-time science fiction series with a crew that a broader audience could have related to.

1) The Cage crew was a bunch on not so diverse white people

2) Spock was the break out character, so cutting him probably wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[Admiral2]

Fine. I'll be the confident one.

Yes. In fact it could have worked better.

After that pilot NBC asked Roddenberry for two major changes: Get rid of the guy with the ears and don't make your girlfriend the first officer. Had he done both those things, but fought for a female Number One played by someone else, what you'd be left with is a progressive, unique-for-its-time science fiction series with a crew that a broader audience could have related to.

1) The Cage crew was a bunch on not so diverse white people

There's more than one type of diversity, whose characteristics are just as important as skin color and numbers.

A woman second-in-command of a quasi-military crew on a science fiction show - wearing pants, in 1964 - was just as groundbreaking, if not more, than the Asian guy with the one whole line we got with the second pilot. As far as I'm concerned there was a regression in diversity, in that the woman's role in that pilot was to fall in love with the white male XO and die with him. Big whoop.

Then the series came, and we got mini-skirts and go-go boots. Regression.

Don't tell me The Cage was less diverse.

2) Spock was the break out character, so cutting him probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Unless you made it clear that you were going to tell Human stories and backed it up with the Human crew your Human audience could best relate to. What people have been saying is true: Spock doesn't break out without being paired with Kirk, and they had to kill off Mitchell to make it happen. Think about it. I say if you needed a Kirk just to make Spock look great, then if I have Pike, I don't need Spock.

 

[Kor]

^ See my post in the "entertainment tapes" thread re: the mini-skirt uniforms. They were by no means seen as regression at the time.

Kor

 

[tosapanic]

Hunter was also in an episode of Kraft Suspense Theatre titled "The Trains of Silence." It's up on Youtube. I've seen this a few times, and he comes across the same way he did in "The Cage." Angry, trying to get to the truth, suspicious of others. Maybe it's the part he was playing, but it seems to be Pike again, except in a suit and glasses. Doesn't seem to have as much range as Shatner.

 

[Zaminhon]

2) Spock was the break out character, so cutting him probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Unless you made it clear that you were going to tell Human stories and backed it up with the Human crew your Human audience could best relate to. What people have been saying is true: Spock doesn't break out without being paired with Kirk, and they had to kill off Mitchell to make it happen. Think about it. I say if you needed a Kirk just to make Spock look great, then if I have Pike, I don't need Spock.

It would have been a crappy show without Spock and if it were just Spock and PIke, it would have been less crappy, but still crap. What set it apart was the dynamic between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and I don't believe it could have been captured with a Pike crew. The show would have been about as memorable as Land of the Giants, Time Tunnel, or Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. IMO, the chemistry just wasn't there and I doubt it would have lasted or created a franchise for 50 years.

 

[Warped9]

We know how well things worked out as they happened so it's natural to think that it's the only way it could have worked. But other casts and shows do work using different dynamics so it really is impossible to say it couldn't have worked with Hunter and company.

 

[Maurice]

Majel didn't have "It", that je ne sais quoi that a lead needs.

NBC wanted the interracial cast, as per the network memo calling for more roles for minorities.

Had the show gone to series from "The Cage" it would probably be remembered more fondly by some than the Irwin Allen shows because the scriptwriting would surely have been better, but otherwise, it's all a guessing game.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Let's also say Jeffrey Hunter decides to stick around for the second pilot and for the series.

Does Hunter come out of his shell and feel more fleshed out as things progress?

No, because Hunter was never the kind of actor with that soulful, appealing range that moves between stern commander and a world of earthly appeal as friend, romantic lead, or playful. This ties right into the Number One matter: if Hunter continued the same performance as Pike, why would Roddenberry think of changing the other cold, flat personality, when he has fine with it in the pilot?

Sure, characters can grow over a season, but I can see writers not having much motivation to explore her emotional side, since she her rather extreme pilot personality was deliberate--it was her "thing" to distinguish her from the rest of the crew. If so, that leaves Spock hanging in the wind as an underdeveloped alien that would have ended up as just some sci-if flavor, but lacking substance, and having NO dynamic personality to serve as Nimoy's contrast / springboard.

But could it have worked or were NBC's instincts inarguably right in insisting on the changes they wanted? All the basic elements were already there, but it can be argued NBC's criticisms forced GR and company to regroup and work out their ideas beter.

NBC was right--without question. The contrast in thought-provoking characters & story with appeal overflowed from WNMHGB, over merely being a thought-provoking story as presented in #1. This cannot be underestimated in how it hard-set the foundation and drive of what would become the regular series. 1960s Sapce Race culture need a group and plotting to compel people to believe in an inquisitive, soulful and daring group forever being the living example of Kirk's opening voice over.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'm glad I wasn't an NBC executive at the time, because I would have screened "The Cage" as a sci-fi hungry enthusiast and said "That's it-- don't change a thing!"

And that would be unfortunate for me, because I like Shatner and the production episodes much better.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Roddenberry was told to cast reasonably, which meant no blacks and he said a Captain Pike show would have been a grand adventure.

Did you skip this post?

 

[Maurice]

Just to clear the air about the casting and what the network wanted:

According to Herb Solow, from Inside Star Trek p. 60, the network said the following about the cast of "The Cage":

Then came their [NBC's] wants and desires...

"In varying degrees, we're not too happy with some of the cast. We support the concept of a woman in a strong, leading role, but we have serious doubts as to Majel Barrett's abilities to 'carry' the show as its costar. We also think you can do better with the ship's doctor, the yeoman, and other members of the crew. We applaud the attempt at a racial mix: it's exactly what we want. Hopefully, there'll be more experienced minority actors available for next year. Jeffrey Hunter was okay, and if you want to use him again, that's fine with us.

"Leonard Nimoy isn't a problem, the role he plays is a major problem! If you want to lose Nimoy, that's also fine with us..."

Hence only Spock surviving to the next pilot, and that because the Trek staff fought for him.

And re a multi-ethnic crew, there was this memorandum:

NBC TELEVISION NETWORK

August 17, 1966

Mr. Gene Roddenberry
DESILU STUDIOS
Hollywood, Calif.

Dear Gene:

Census figures, in the mid-1960s, indicate that one American in every eight is non-white. It is reasonable to assume that this percentage also applies to the television audience.

I choose this statistic to call to your attention once again to NBC's longstanding policy of non-discrimination. Our efforts in the past to assure the fact that the programs broadcast on our facilities are a natural reflection of the role of minorities in American life have met with substantial success. I would like to congratulate those producers who have extended themselves in this regard and I invite all of our creative associates to join us in an even greater effort to meet this fact of American life.

NBC's employment policy has long dictated that there can be no discrimination because of race, creed, religion or national origin and this applies in all of out operations. In addition, since we are mindful of our vast audience and the extent to which television influences taste and attitudes, we are not only anxious but determined that members of minority groups be treated in a manner consistent with their role in society. While this applies to all racial minorities, obviously the principle reference is to the casting and depiction of Negroes. Our purpose is to assure that in our medium, and within the permissive framework of dramatic license, we present a reasonable reflection of contemporary society.

We urge producers to cast Negroes, subject to their availability and competence as performs, as people who are an integral segment of the population, as well as in those roles where the fact of their minority status is of significance. An earnest attempt has been made to see that their presence contributes to an honest and natural reflection of places, situations and events, and we desire to intensify and extend this effort.

We believe that NBC's pursuit of this police is pre-eminent in the broadcasting industry. It is evident in both the daytime and nighttime schedules and particularly in such popular programs as I SPY, THE ANDY WILLIAMS SHOW, THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E., RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, and many other presentations. While we have made noticeable progress we can do better, and I ask you for your cooperation and help.

Sincerely,

MORT WERNER
[Programs Vice President]

* As reproduced on pages 76–77 of the book Inside Star Trek by Herbert F. Solow and Robert H. Justman, 1996 by Pocket Books

 

[Warped9]

Hunter was saddled with a character starting out as emotionally defeated. We know Hunter had the range and ability to portray a more expressive character, but as written Pike wasn't that way.

John Hoyt was a competent enough actor, but he did strike me as perhaps a bit too old for the role of Boyce (even though I don't know what his actual age was compared to DeForest Kelley). The actor who played Piper in WNMHGB also struck me as not the right type and he didn't impress me at all. DeForest Kelley was indeed the perfect fit.

NBC's opinion of Majel might have been coloured a bit by their awareness of her relationship to GR and their unease with him. Of course, it didn't help that Number One's character was written as kind of flat and unexpressive. Given what little I've seen of Majel in other roles she might well have been able to pull off a commanding woman with more expressiveness.

History shows Nimoy's presence was crucial so good on GR for fighting to retain him and Spock.

The rest of the cast was bland. Tyler comes across as a kid and Colt left me unmoved. And, as has been noted already by others, there wasn't much evidence of a multiracial crew.

The Talosians are basically types and even the Keeper doesn't convey much presence. The threat of the Talosians and the danger of illusion is an idea that isn't easy to convey and so it's a challenge to telegraph a real sense of jeopardy to our heroes.

In the end NBC not only chose the wrong kind of story for the kind of show they wanted (at least as a pilot to launch the series) but GR and company simply didn't produced a polished enough effort. The second time around allowed them to do it better.

 

[Terok Nor]

Pike's one episode was a great story but something about the tone, the acting and the costumes reminded me of a 50's sci-fi B-movie. If the series had continued that way I'm not sure it would have lasted half a season let alone 3 years.

My take on it is, could the Pike era have been successful? Possibly. Would I want to replace what we actually got (Kirk/Spock/Bones and Trek as we know it)? Hell no. I'm thankful things happened the way they happened.

 

[Terok Nor]

I don't get the criticism of Majel. She was great as Nurse Chapel and put in a ton of brilliant performances as Lwaxana Troi. Number One just wasn't much of a character to work with.