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Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defiant?

Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

I always assumed that since the MU Terrans only got their advanced tech from the Vulcans, that they weren't good at developing their own tech.

So, after getting the Defiant they just copied its design for the next 100 years instead of advancing it, because they're not good at developing their own tech. Only stealing from the stronger guys.
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

Hambone said:
It doesn't work for me and neither does the episode. Here's why. "Mirror, Mirror" establishes that mirror Enterprise is virtually identical to 'our' Enterprise. Kirk says "The ship itself is altered subtly." If the MU Empire had an identical ship (Defiant) in 2154 there would have been substantial advances to that technology by 2267.

One explanation could be that the Defiant was destroyed or disassembled soon after the events of "In A Mirror, Darkly" and the Empire later re-designed the ship from scratch.

I've often thought about this too, because it's one of my few gripes with IAMD - they should have found a way to resolve what happened with the Defiant, to ensure that it didn't screw up the technology level of the Terran Empire seen in "Mirror, Mirror."

sunshine1.gif
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

^Why do we need it explained to us? We seem to be having a fair amount of fun extrapolating.

I'm vaguely amused...no wait, saddened...by the seeming impossibility of having a thread where ENT is discussed without folks bashing it just for bashing's sake.

As to the topic- I don't think the Defiant became the Enterprise, but I do think the Defiant's tech was used to enable the Empire to develop further Connies.
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

The visual evidence would lean towards a no. The Defiant is a constitution class vessel identical to the TOS Enterprise. The MU Enterprise, at least visually, is more like the Enterprise from WNMHGB, an earlier version before at least one refit.

I tend to agree that the Defiant became a template for a new fleet, but that the terran empire isn't very creative and doesn't really create, but instead steal their technology, that's why 100 years later the technology hasn't really progressed much (and why 100 years after that they've been defeated.)
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

They most likely put more time and research into their weapons systems and the power-systems for them. And so long as they mount up to an exsisting spaceframe, why bother with something that is more or less cosmetic.
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

Unicron said:
Hambone said:
It doesn't work for me and neither does the episode. Here's why. "Mirror, Mirror" establishes that mirror Enterprise is virtually identical to 'our' Enterprise. Kirk says "The ship itself is altered subtly." If the MU Empire had an identical ship (Defiant) in 2154 there would have been substantial advances to that technology by 2267.

One explanation could be that the Defiant was destroyed or disassembled soon after the events of "In A Mirror, Darkly" and the Empire later re-designed the ship from scratch.

I've often thought about this too, because it's one of my few gripes with IAMD - they should have found a way to resolve what happened with the Defiant, to ensure that it didn't screw up the technology level of the Terran Empire seen in "Mirror, Mirror."

sunshine1.gif
Had the series continued they may hae done just that. There were plans to revisit the Mirror Universe in ENT's fifth season.
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

DonIago said:
^Why do we need it explained to us? We seem to be having a fair amount of fun extrapolating.

I'm vaguely amused...no wait, saddened...by the seeming impossibility of having a thread where ENT is discussed without folks bashing it just for bashing's sake.

Because fan extrapolation is limited at best, and it can be fun but sometimes it's nice to have an official word in a case like this.

And for what it's worth, I hope the bashing reference is not to me - I wasn't bashing the ep or the series. Actually, I consider IAMD to be one of ENT's best.

sunshine1.gif
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

Not a reference to you. :)

If I want an "official" word I'll wait for more MU novels. Because darn it, the story set in the ENT timeframe certainly opened a can of worms.
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

Since the empire was on the verge of losing the war in the episode I would say the Defiant probably played a role in the continuation of their grip on power as we see in Mirror Mirror.
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

DonIago said:
Not a reference to you. :)

If I want an "official" word I'll wait for more MU novels. Because darn it, the story set in the ENT timeframe certainly opened a can of worms.

Never hurts to ask. ;) And I agree to some extent - I liked IAMD, but it did open some worm cans that could have been avoided. ENT as a series did quite a bit of that. :p

sunshine1.gif
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

Anthony said:
Oh, for God's sake.

Please... :rolleyes:

Would you be good enough to add anything more of substance to your response? As it is, I'm trying to figure out why you think a drive-by was the way to go.
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

Anwar said:
I always assumed that since the MU Terrans only got their advanced tech from the Vulcans, that they weren't good at developing their own tech.

That's what I thought as well. The Empire's engineers can't even develop NX-class engines that don't spew out fatal doses of radiation (example: Trip's scars). I doubt they're smart enough to know what to do with the Defiant.
 
One subtle discontinuity seems to escape everyone about "In a Mirror, Darkly".

The I.S.S. Enterprise seen in "Mirror, Mirror" seemed to be very similar to the U.S.S. Enteprise of 2267. The controls and protocols we associate with the U.S.S. Enterprise of 2267 seem to apply perfectly to the I.S.S. Enterprise (with few exceptions, such as the transporter effect and the "agony booth"), right down to the sound and behavior of the controls.

But in "The Tholian Web" the U.S.S. Defiant seems to be a "currently updated" Constitution-class vessel for late 2268/early 2269, right down to the sound and behavior of the controls. (At least from what we can observe, if memory serves.) Therefore, the U.S.S. Defiant of 2268/9/"The Tholian Web" could not go back in time and become the I.S.S. Enterprise of 2267; it would have to revert specifically to 2267 specs. How could the Terran Empire do that so perfectly?

I would also point out that, while "In a Mirror, Darkly" was a fun romp, the Defiant as seen in that episode could not have been the same ship from "The Tholian Web". The Defiant from 2268/9 that Kirk discovered was a derilict. It was pretty obvious that she wasn't going anywhere on her own power, let alone fight off a Tholian squadron. If the ship could've been revived as quickly as Tucker did, Kirk boarding party would've reactivated the ship and flown her out of the disputed Tholian frontier. You remember what McCoy said: "Jim, this ship is dissolving! My hand just passed through a man and a table!"

I will say this for "In a Mirror, Darkly": Manny Cotto saw to it that the Defiant was awfully close to the one lost in "The Tholian Web". Great job on the bridge set, even if the controls on the bridge sound a little off. I do not have a problem with a fully operational Constitution-class starship singlehandedly cleaning everyone's clock in the Mirror Universe. By Archer's 22nd century standards, Defiant would be a giant! He would regard that ship as having a "Warp 8 engine" (or was it Warp 9?) and technologies on board that would make it seem like a Borg cube next to Warp 5 ships. If you accept the notion of the Defiant of "In a Mirror, Darkly" being the same one as in "The Tholian Web", then Hoshi has all the cards. Her super-starship could dance circles around 22nd century Warp 5 ships. It's over four times faster. And lest we forget: Defiant is equipped with replicators.

Having said all that, it was fun to watch, but the Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly" could not be the same ship. Not a chance. The whole story was a romp for me. I could not take it seriously. What a shame. It was half-baked like the rest of STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE.
 
I just had to expand on my last post, and emphasize that "In a Mirror, Darkly" was just way too contrived. Explorers and scientists in Archer's time should be barely aware of time travel, let alone the notion of figuring out that a ship came from the future.

I could handle the notion of Tucker getting to learn how the Defiant's technologies work, but the whole thing happened way too fast. It would be like taking a nuclear aircraft carrier from the 1970's back to the Civil War and giving it to the Confederates. It would take many years to learn how it works before they could do anything with it. But giving it to them after Sherman's March to the Sea wouldn't accomplish anything.

Tucker could not have revived even a slightly damaged Defiant so quickly.
 
I just thought of something else about "In a Mirror, Darkly" that bothered me:

If you look at when the Defiant did battle with the ISS Avenger, you see the unshielded Defiant take direct hits to her saucer section:

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=96&pos=623

Later, when the Defiant arrives at Earth, we see the saucer section again, this time without a scratch... amazing!

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=96&pos=712

Now, I ask you: how much trouble would it have been for the CGI effects crew to at least put some burn marks on the Defiant's hull?
 
Re: Could the mirror Enterprise have actually been the Defia

jptrekker said:
The visual evidence would lean towards a no. The Defiant is a constitution class vessel identical to the TOS Enterprise. The MU Enterprise, at least visually, is more like the Enterprise from WNMHGB, an earlier version before at least one refit.

The ironic thing about that statement is that the black dock clamps on the NX's saucer were taken directly from the WNM model. It would make a lot of sense if the Terran ships still retained this feature, given their cruder methodology. (As M. Night might say "What A Twist!")

As for the other differences, perhaps they looked through the refit logs of the Defiant and liked the WNM version, for either technical reasons (perhaps easier to emulate/copy than the later model) or for pure looks alone (These are the same people who paint their damn starships, dye their hair black and wear pirate shirts under their uniforms.)

As for the interior styling, it's really not that big of a deal. They built a new one, period.
 
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