Could Star Trek be Re-rebooted?

[Phoenix219]

The Kelvin timeline doesn't need to be fixed, because it's a parallel universe coexisting alongside the Prime universe. Indeed, DSC makes it quite clear that it still existed up until at least its 24th century, as Yor came from that timeline.



The entire point of the Abrams films was to establish a changed timeline from 2233 onwards so that they could tell their own stories without having to be restrained by 'canon.' What would be the point of Spock going back in time to some other pre-existing timeline? If he was going to do that, then there wouldn't have been a need for the time travel at all.




There has never been consistency with time travel in Star Trek.

There have been other universes (Mirror Mirror, Parallels), and there have been time travel that changes the fabric of their own universe, which must be fixed at the end (First Contact, City on the Edge of Forever, Endgame, etc).

So if we go with what Discovery has implied / stated, then The Kelvinverse was always a pre-existing alternate universe, a pre-existing physical space, not a time travel rewrite, and Spock both time traveled and tunneled into an alternate universe. I'm fine with that.

There has never been a time that time travel in one universe has spawned a co-existing universe, it has always been a timeline rewrite.

 

[fireproof78]

Parallels begs to differ. Choices make different people appear.

 

[Phoenix219]

Parallels begs to differ. Choices make different people appear.

Parallels just shows lots of parallels. Of course different choices are made, but they are all alternate universes..... pre-existing.... not the one timeline being rewritten over and over again due to time travel. Time travel only affects the fabric of the universe the time travel happens in.

 

[fireproof78]

Parallels just shows lots of parallels. Of course different choices are made, but they are all alternate universes..... pre-existing.... not the one timeline being rewritten over and over again due to time travel. Time travel only affects the fabric of the universe the time travel happens in.

The graphic seemed to indicate otherwise.

 

[Phoenix219]

The graphic seemed to indicate otherwise.

If it was all variations of the same timeline, they wouldn't be able to encounter all of those different versions of themselves at the same time. They were all there from separate universes, not different permutations of theirs, which can't exist at the same time. They could have created similar ones through time travel, but that wasn't the case there, IMO.

 

[Dukhat]

So if we go with what Discovery has implied / stated, then The Kelvinverse was always a pre-existing alternate universe, a pre-existing physical space, not a time travel rewrite, and Spock both time traveled and tunneled into an alternate universe. I'm fine with that.

When did DSC imply or state that? Because I distinctly remember Kovich stating that the KT was created because of Nero’s incursion into the past.

 

[F. King Daniel]

When did DSC imply or state that? Because I distinctly remember Kovich stating that the KT was created because of Nero’s incursion into the past.

That's correct, Kovich says something like "a timeliness created by the incursion of a Romulan mining vessel". More recently Wesley shouted out the Kelvin timeline in Prodigy season 2, although IIRC he was just naming a bunch.

 

[Phoenix219]

When did DSC imply or state that? Because I distinctly remember Kovich stating that the KT was created because of Nero’s incursion into the past.

Unreliable narrator. Assumption on Kovich's part. Absolutely no way to know that, assumption because the history between both universes is similar before that point. Literally no reason to know that / assume that when it is clearly different from every single other instance of time travel.

There is not a universe where the Nazis won, because Kirk prevented it.

There is not a universe where the Borg took over, because Picard prevented it.

Spock clearly tunneled into an alternate universe, and did not rewrite his own timeline.

 

[BK613]

The graphic seemed to indicate otherwise.

Rewatch the episode. Data explicitly says that "there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." I mean, the episode is called 'Parallels' not 'Branches'
And, also, by the time the diagram is referenced, he has moved on from that and is talking about how Worf's shuttle caused the situation and so the diagram is actually showing Worf shifting through the various realities.

 

[Dukhat]

Unreliable narrator. Assumption on Kovich's part.

Nope. Dude’s a time traveler who survived the TCW. Can’t get any more reliable than that. Sorry it doesnt fit your personal narrative.

 

[The Wormhole]

Even if we were to discount Kovich as an "unreliable narrator" (though fuck knows why we would) we also have Wesley Crusher, who basically has a metaphysical perspective on all time itself also saying the Kelvin timeline was created by the "Narada Incursion." It's pretty damn clear the Kelvin timeline is not meant to be a pre-existing timeline.

 

[Nyotarules]

Spock clearly tunneled into an alternate universe, and did not rewrite his own timeline.

Definitely so, since Chekov was born a few years earlier than his Prime counterpart

 

[fireproof78]

Rewatch the episode. Data explicitly says that "there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." I mean, the episode is called 'Parallels' not 'Branches'
And, also, by the time the diagram is referenced, he has moved on from that and is talking about how Worf's shuttle caused the situation and so the diagram is actually showing Worf shifting through the various realities.

The graphic looked like branches

I'm a simple guy sometimes and go by what is show not just a theory postulated.

 

[BK613]

The graphic looked like branches

I'm a simple guy sometimes and go by what is show not just a theory postulated.

Which why I suggested rewatching the episode.
The scene where the diagram is referenced takes place in the Observation Lounge. Everyone is seated for the following dialogue.:

DATA: I believe the quantum fissure we discovered is a fixed point across the space time continuum. A keyhole which intersects many other quantum realities. ​

TROI: What do you mean, quantum realities? ​

DATA: For any event, there is an infinite number of possible outcomes.Our choices determine which outcomes will follow. But there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities. ​

WORF: And somehow I have been shifting from one reality to another. ​

DATA: That is correct. ​

TROI: How did this happen?​

​

To answer Troi's question, Data gets up and moves to the screen, where he explains:

DATA: When Worf's shuttlecraft came into contact with the quantum fissure, I believe its warp engines caused a small break in the barriers between quantum realties. Worf was thrown into a state of quantum flux. He immediately shifted into other realities. ​

CRUSHER: And Geordi's visor somehow triggered that effect? ​

DATA: Exactly. The visor uses a subspace field pulse. I believe that whenever Geordi came near Worf, the field pulse intensified the quantum flux and pushed Worf into another reality​

That;s what the diagram shows, the shuttle intersecting the fissure and multiple Worfs' subsequent shifting (multiple Worfs, because later we see them in the shuttle across multiple universes as they seal the fissure).

 

[fireproof78]

Which why I suggested rewatching the episode.
The scene where the diagram is referenced takes place in the Observation Lounge. Everyone is seated for the following dialogue.:

DATA: I believe the quantum fissure we discovered is a fixed point across the space time continuum. A keyhole which intersects many other quantum realities. ​

TROI: What do you mean, quantum realities? ​

DATA: For any event, there is an infinite number of possible outcomes.Our choices determine which outcomes will follow. But there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities. ​

WORF: And somehow I have been shifting from one reality to another. ​

DATA: That is correct. ​

TROI: How did this happen?​

​

To answer Troi's question, Data gets up and moves to the screen, where he explains:

DATA: When Worf's shuttlecraft came into contact with the quantum fissure, I believe its warp engines caused a small break in the barriers between quantum realties. Worf was thrown into a state of quantum flux. He immediately shifted into other realities. ​

CRUSHER: And Geordi's visor somehow triggered that effect? ​

DATA: Exactly. The visor uses a subspace field pulse. I believe that whenever Geordi came near Worf, the field pulse intensified the quantum flux and pushed Worf into another reality​

That;s what the diagram shows, the shuttle intersecting the fissure and multiple Worfs' subsequent shifting (multiple Worfs, because later we see them in the shuttle across multiple universes as they seal the fissure).

It strikes me as extremely odd that this fissure occurs as a fixed point yet the realities wouldn't exist without the choice.

 

[Phoenix219]

It strikes me as extremely odd that this fissure occurs as a fixed point yet the realities wouldn't exist without the choice.

the realities existed regardless, they crossed over because of the fissure.

Just as randomly convenient as the mirror U beaming up at the same time.

 

[fireproof78]

the realities existed regardless, they crossed over because of the fissure.

Just as randomly convenient as the mirror U beaming up at the same time.

I'll take your word for it. If they can merge people from various times then different timelines strike me as a non-issue, and creating branches within a line a similar non-issue.

To quote SF DEBRIS on time travel, "I don't give a shit."

 

[Phoenix219]

I'll take your word for it. If they can merge people from various times then different timelines strike me as a non-issue, and creating branches within a line a similar non-issue.

To quote SF DEBRIS on time travel, "I don't give a shit."

fair enough. i just don't believe that time travel within one's own physical universe can somehow spawn an entirely new UNIVERSE full of matter and energy, through nothing but a choice. reorganizing the matter and energy in your own universe into a new outcome seems a whole lot easier.

 

[fireproof78]

fair enough. i just don't believe that time travel within one's own physical universe can somehow spawn an entirely new UNIVERSE full of matter and energy, through nothing but a choice. reorganizing the matter and energy in your own universe into a new outcome seems a whole lot easier.

If you have a transporter then of course you can.

 

[Dukhat]

Definitely so, since Chekov was born a few years earlier than his Prime counterpart

Nope. Anything that happened post-2233 in the Kelvin timeline is up in the air. NuChekov being born earlier than Prime Chekov makes no difference, because both Prime Chekov and NuChekov were born after 2233. For all we know, circumstances in the KT caused Chekov’s parents to have conceived their child earlier, which is why NuChekov bears little resemblance to Prime Chekov.