Could Star Trek be Re-rebooted?

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Is it even possible to win?

To quote a Murphological restatement of the Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't quit the game.

Every social, economic, or philosophical system that attempts to make life meaningful assumes a contradiction of these laws: capitalism is based on the assumption that you can win; communism is based on the assumption that you can break even; mysticism is based on the assumption that you can quit the game.

 

[kkt]

I'm pretty sure most people who complained did so because the execution was awful, not because of the change in time period itself.

What the time period is doesn't really matter. What a lot of fans don't know is that TOS itself implied it could take place anytime from the 22nd to the 28th century. We never got a canonical century until the title card in The Wrath of Khan.

20th century air policeman to Kirk: I'm gonna lock you up for two hundred years.
Kirk: That oughta be just about right.

 

[fireproof78]

The fans will probably hate that mind you. Is it even possible to win?

It is not so the goal shouldn't be about winning.

And before anyone starts with "but Star Wars replicates a 1970s aesthetic in its modern productions" Star Wars can get away with that because if often acknowledged even in the OT that its technology was old and outdated. People can look at a 1970s aesthetic and accept it as old and outdated but they aren't going to look at TOS's 1960s aesthetic and accept it as cutting edge technology. Also, Star Wars takes place in a complete fantasy world, helping with the suspension of disbelief, whereas Star Trek always prides itself on being Our Future. Our technology is not going to advance to look like TOS.

Thank you. Exactly this.

 

[knightgrace]

Hmmm.
In order to 'explain' a 1960s design esthetic to a modern audience, one must recon a very good reason to do so. Let's that the bridge stations are nothing but idiot lights. Why? One possible explanation would be similar to the 2003 Battlestar Galactica reboot. Something happened with Artificial Intelligence(s)... requiring a deeper dialog to get around 2003 Battlestar Galactica issues.
There is a novel by Frank Herbert, called 'Dune'... Let's say a Bultlerian jihad, but to a more limited extent than the novel. Not between organic life machine, but between organic life and organic life. Not human against human per se.
Yes, Picard went that route, partially, but perhaps further. With Dr. Daystrom being the first computer scientist to be permitted to work on partial Artificial Intelligence. Manual control is still a must - Manual control with "stops", physical stops to insure that when events go south, that the ship remains functional. This would explain the design of the bridge and engineering.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

20th century air policeman to Kirk: I'm gonna lock you up for two hundred years.
Kirk: That oughta be just about right.

Yep, that's the low end.

 

[The Wormhole]

Hmmm.
In order to 'explain' a 1960s design esthetic to a modern audience, one must recon a very good reason to do so. Let's that the bridge stations are nothing but idiot lights. Why? One possible explanation would be similar to the 2003 Battlestar Galactica reboot. Something happened with Artificial Intelligence(s)... requiring a deeper dialog to get around 2003 Battlestar Galactica issues.
There is a novel by Frank Herbert, called 'Dune'... Let's say a Bultlerian jihad, but to a more limited extent than the novel. Not between organic life machine, but between organic life and organic life. Not human against human per se.
Yes, Picard went that route, partially, but perhaps further. With Dr. Daystrom being the first computer scientist to be permitted to work on partial Artificial Intelligence. Manual control is still a must - Manual control with "stops", physical stops to insure that when events go south, that the ship remains functional. This would explain the design of the bridge and engineering.

The novels actually did try to explain the 1960s aesthetic of TOS in their Enterprise novels as being the result of intentionally making computers more primitive during the Romulan War in order to combat Romulan malware. However, even those in Trek fandom who consider the novel more Star Trek than the Pope is Catholic hate that explanation to the point that later Enterprise novels just sort of ignored it and pretended no such thing was ever established.

 

[Daddy Todd]

Reboots are lazy and lacking in imagination. Prequels have potential but too likely to lead to inconsistencies and retcons. Best to jump forward 80-100 years if not more to leave people to have their imagination with continued adventures with their favorite characters while being able to shake things up that could be explained as they go.

There are issues with jumping a century into the future. Most prominently, the issue of technological progress. How do you make the new show seem technologically advanced over the prior iteration, without making the tech seem to unlikely? Even in the TOS era, technology was magical (matter transmission, FTL drive, etc.) TNG was mostly the same tech, just dressed up in a different design aesthetic. Over the 15+ years of shows in the TNG era, they introduced massive technological advancements ("Batmobile" armor, anyone?)

A century later, those kinds of changes should be ancient tech -- like a candlestick telephone is to us today. Heck, like a rotary dial telephone from 50 years ago is to us. There comes a time when technology advances to such a degree that it's no longer recognizable as the same thing.

So, the designers of a new show set 100 years after the TNG era wouldn't be able to reflect an "accurate" level of technological change, because it would no longer have a Star Trek look & feel.

 

[FredH]

I think at some point, if they want to continue to keep making Trek, a reboot will be necessary and inevitable. For me, SNW demonstrates the pitfalls of continuing to use the same characters when, for all intents and purposes, they end up being different characters—a product of the interpretations of different actors and different writers who perhaps understandably want to make their own stamp rather than sticking to established continuity, etc.

The problem with Trek is, let’s face it, it currently only really appeals to Trek fans and even fans are quite fragmented these days. What they need to do, and what they’ve been trying and failing to do (as evidenced by experiments like S31) is to attract new viewers, new fans, new life. At this point, having to stay within the confines of 60 years (!) worth of established lore while appealing to new viewers is…not easy. Plus, the fans are not always the best gauge of what is best for the franchise in terms of longevity and broad appeal.

I genuinely think they need to rest the show for a few years and wipe the slate clean. New era, new starship, new crew and resist the urge to rely on TOS characters.

The fans will probably hate that mind you. Is it even possible to win?

That, and probably go back to a model of “The starship Enterprise is exploring — basically because we feel like it, not for some desperate quest — and visits a new world most weeks”, instead of creating big story/season/series arcs as the primary aim. (At least at first? They can certainly develop, if it happens organically; just maybe don’t start with that.)

 

[kkt]

Yep, that's the low end.

Seems like a strange quip if it was really 800 years.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Seems like a strange quip if it was really 800 years.

That's the point. It shifted from episode to episode. They're all "correct".

 

[knightgrace]

The novels actually did try to explain the 1960s aesthetic of TOS in their Enterprise novels as being the result of intentionally making computers more primitive during the Romulan War in order to combat Romulan malware. However, even those in Trek fandom who consider the novel more Star Trek than the Pope is Catholic hate that explanation to the point that later Enterprise novels just sort of ignored it and pretended no such thing was ever established.

Well, that I didn't know. WHAT?! He doesn't know everything?? Get the defib.
No, I had a thought, a thought that I have had before... It is not hood styling that is important. But what is under it. The TOS ENTERPRISE all 143 inches of her, there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. It is what we never saw 'the under the hood ' portion that is important. Because anything goes at this point. Including your hamsters and their wheels...
You know those super sized hamsters that were given Compound V and it still takes sixteen of them to power up the Enterprise. No, really.

 

[Mudd]

Trek would be best served by rolling reboots similar to the way comic book continuity has worked since the 1940s.

I'm looking forward to Superman. I enjoyed Man of Steel, but Snyder's approach and ideas aren't my bag and I'm glad to see Gunn move beyond them. All of that notwithstanding, Gunn's and Snyder's films are both Superman stories, as was Superman and Lois, and no one with spare brain cells insists that they have to be consistent with one another to validate them either as worthwhile or as "really Superman."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Trek would be best served by rolling reboots similar to the way comic book continuity has worked since the 1940s.

I'm looking forward to Superman. I enjoyed Man of Steel, but Snyder's approach and ideas aren't my bag and I'm glad to see Gunn move beyond them. All of that notwithstanding, Gunn's and Snyder's films are both Superman stories, as was Superman and Lois, and no one with spare brain cells insists that they have to be consistent with one another to validate them either as worthwhile or as "really Superman."

I liked the feel of a rolling reboot that TOS had in the early episodes,* particularly when transitioning from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" to "The Corbomite Maneuver."

The assumption that it's really all in one continuity is an effort to erase that—honestly and in fairness, how the footage from "The Cage" was used was a brilliant way to fold it into continuity, in the condition it was—but nevertheless "James R. Kirk" remains.

* - The inconsistent vagueness of what century it was all occurring in mentioned above also qualifies for this, I think.

** - There's a name for this on TV Tropes, suggesting early series madness or something like that, but I can't remember the precise term at the moment.

 

[fireproof78]

There's a name for this on TV Tropes, suggesting early series madness or something like that, but I can't remember the precise term at the moment

I think it might be early installment weirdness.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think it might be early installment weirdness.

That's it, thanks. Smiling, shouting Spock qualifies easily, I think.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, CORPORAL CAPTAIN!!!!!

You could also call it ''finding their way'' while ''establishing characater.''

 

[BillJ]

That's it, thanks. Smiling, shouting Spock qualifies easily, I think.

Or, they can find a reason to include it in the narrative. I remember "Vulcan's Glory" by DC Fontana had younger Spock acting emotional in order to try to fit in with his shipmates. Which I thought was a very good explanation to bridge the two pilots with TOS proper.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Or, they can find a reason to include it in the narrative. I remember "Vulcan's Glory" by DC Fontana had younger Spock acting emotional in order to try to fit in with his shipmates. Which I thought was a very good explanation to bridge the two pilots with TOS proper.

Retrospective treatment is more than fine. Reevaluating the old with fresh ideas, applying new insights, reinventing it, reimagining it is essential to keeping an old property interesting and relevant. We're seeing quite a bit of that sort of thing in Strange New Worlds.

 

[BillJ]

We're seeing quite a bit of that sort of thing in Strange New Worlds.

I watched the first season and honestly it just felt like nostalgia pandering more than anything else. I know lots of people love it and it makes me happy that Star Trek continues to satisfy so many people's entertainment itch. It just ended up not being for me. So I have to lean on the novels and comics in these discussions.