Could Gene's vision coexist with DS9

[Ds9Defiant1701]

Ds9 fit with Gene Vision but like some said its more realistic than TNG which Federation was perfect and had no real problems.
But DS9 and Enterprise showed that Starfleet had its flaws even with the "evolution". Didn't see TOS that much so idk if Ds9 really fit with it...

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Ds9 fit with Gene Vision but like some said its more realistic than TNG which Federation was perfect and had no real problems.
But DS9 and Enterprise showed that Starfleet had its flaws even with the "evolution". Didn't see TOS that much so idk if Ds9 really fit with it...

TNG showed there were flaws in the "evolved" humanity, and that the Fed wasn't perfect. Look at all those corrupt Star Fleet Admirals. It's like everyone above the rank of Captain was a villain. Hahaha

 

[jaime]

I always find it bemusing how people equate perceived 'grit' with 'realism' especially in regard to Star Trek.
The humans too perfect? That was sort of the point to Star Trek in a lot of ways, it's optimistic, we all get to be better versions of ourself in the future...humanity gets more civilised, not less, not the same, but better (sort of the opposite to cyberpunk, and we haven't improved much recently in the real world either)
Star Trek, like most optimistic sf, is about what we can be if we try...and revelling in the negatives of our species to declare it 'realism' seems defeatist. It also seems that one aspect Ds9 highlights is already true...it's easy to be a saint in paradise. and the flipside is we turn to entertainment to use what are essentially bad things as entertainment. I think the very things that people think make their entertainment 'realistic' are the very things that would break them if they were actually happening for 'real' to them.
I can assure you that those who experience problems like war, poverty, religious persecution, etc, arent necessarily going to enjoy being told that the same stuff will still be happening I'm the future here. But being shown a future where everyone is sheltered, fed, can do well according to their talents? A future where when these blights are found elsewhere, humanity will help those people too?
That's a future that gives a bit of escapism, that gives a bit of hope.

There's enough entertainment out there that revels in the more unpleasant side of human nature. Trek is rare that it for the most part does not...and that includes Ds9, because it shows people, humans, making the universe a better place, and that includes Ds9.
Sisko, even in his darkest hour, is still fundamentally trying to keep that light of the Federation burning...you can't sing the praises of The Pale Moonlight without also remembering Home Front and Paradise Lost. You Can't be militantly atheist about the Bajoran religion, because the Wormhole aliens are also Gods, and the persecution of the Bajorans by the atheistic Cardassian Union shows where that can lead you....then the Ancient Bajoran caste system shows you exactly where blind faith can get you.
Ds9 is rare in that it's gritty 'realism' actually is realistic in its analogy, which puts it's square in line with TOS and TNG...and it still shows a future of hope. Sisko said he isn't Picard, but the reality is they are both those 'evolved' humans...Sisko was maybe a little more broken at the begining, but ultimately that starfleet crew are not on Ds9 to benefit themselves are they? Sisko can have a nice safe job on Earth, but even before the dominion threat he chooses to remain on Ds9.

I prefer the hope. I am not looking for defeatist fiction, showing me a future where we continue to struggle against each other, where the haves are comfy in their little world watching 'realistic' entertainment because their world bores them and they are too cowardly to seek real improvement and real challenge, and where the have nots have less and less escapism even in their entertainment, and little to no real escape from violence or poverty, caused by greed and selfishness, around them.

So yeah. DS9 works very well with Genes Dream (not so much the dollar signs version, but it shifted more Merch than enterprise and jj trek combined) and reminds us exactly why we have it in the first place.

 

[TwoJakes]

a future where we continue to struggle against each other, where the haves are comfy in their little world

I would imagine that Admirals live better than Ensigns.

Ds9 fit with Gene Vision but like some said its more realistic than TNG which Federation was perfect and had no real problems.

Or it was a case of the Enterprise was off in the middle of nowhere and largely isolated from the Federation. And Picard was living in a bubble of his own fantasies.

 

[jaime]

I would imagine that Admirals live better than Ensigns. Or it was a case of the Enterprise was off in the middle of nowhere and largely isolated from the Federation. And Picard was living in a bubble of his own fantasies.

They get a bigger room on board the smaller ships. But on the long voyages, on ships like enterprise, no one there long term seems to be lacking living space. There really is no evidence on screen that suggests much stratification along class or financial lines exists in the federation, an those we see in more uncomfortable situations tend to be there by choice (colonists, scientists, listening post starfleet officers...) and are still comfortable by 20th century standards. And of course, they all choose those careers in the first place....it's one of the things you accept in Trek (as part of your suspension of disbelief if you like): in the future people are nice and get on with stuff for altruistic reasons.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Exactly.

And Gene's "vision" was a load of hooey, anyway. It was some self-important philosophy he came up with years after the fact of the original Star Trek, and started promoting on the convention circuit, even though it had nothing to do with Trek in the first place.

Kor

And it was also reflective of the fact that he usurped complete creator credit for everything on Star Trek despite the fact that other people (like Gene Coon and Dorothy Fontana) were really the ones who created all of the details of the Star Trek universe.

 

[JeffinOakland]

It's important to not ascribe "mystic" status to a guy with a brilliant imagination who was desperate to sell his ideas to tv studios and remain relevant in a cutthroat industry.

 

[RandyS]

I always find it bemusing how people equate perceived 'grit' with 'realism' especially in regard to Star Trek.
The humans too perfect? That was sort of the point to Star Trek in a lot of ways, it's optimistic, we all get to be better versions of ourself in the future...humanity gets more civilised, not less, not the same, but better (sort of the opposite to cyberpunk, and we haven't improved much recently in the real world either)
Star Trek, like most optimistic sf, is about what we can be if we try...and revelling in the negatives of our species to declare it 'realism' seems defeatist. It also seems that one aspect Ds9 highlights is already true...it's easy to be a saint in paradise. and the flipside is we turn to entertainment to use what are essentially bad things as entertainment. I think the very things that people think make their entertainment 'realistic' are the very things that would break them if they were actually happening for 'real' to them.
I can assure you that those who experience problems like war, poverty, religious persecution, etc, arent necessarily going to enjoy being told that the same stuff will still be happening I'm the future here. But being shown a future where everyone is sheltered, fed, can do well according to their talents? A future where when these blights are found elsewhere, humanity will help those people too?
That's a future that gives a bit of escapism, that gives a bit of hope.

There's enough entertainment out there that revels in the more unpleasant side of human nature. Trek is rare that it for the most part does not...and that includes Ds9, because it shows people, humans, making the universe a better place, and that includes Ds9.
Sisko, even in his darkest hour, is still fundamentally trying to keep that light of the Federation burning...you can't sing the praises of The Pale Moonlight without also remembering Home Front and Paradise Lost. You Can't be militantly atheist about the Bajoran religion, because the Wormhole aliens are also Gods, and the persecution of the Bajorans by the atheistic Cardassian Union shows where that can lead you....then the Ancient Bajoran caste system shows you exactly where blind faith can get you.
Ds9 is rare in that it's gritty 'realism' actually is realistic in its analogy, which puts it's square in line with TOS and TNG...and it still shows a future of hope. Sisko said he isn't Picard, but the reality is they are both those 'evolved' humans...Sisko was maybe a little more broken at the begining, but ultimately that starfleet crew are not on Ds9 to benefit themselves are they? Sisko can have a nice safe job on Earth, but even before the dominion threat he chooses to remain on Ds9.

I prefer the hope. I am not looking for defeatist fiction, showing me a future where we continue to struggle against each other, where the haves are comfy in their little world watching 'realistic' entertainment because their world bores them and they are too cowardly to seek real improvement and real challenge, and where the have nots have less and less escapism even in their entertainment, and little to no real escape from violence or poverty, caused by greed and selfishness, around them.

So yeah. DS9 works very well with Genes Dream (not so much the dollar signs version, but it shifted more Merch than enterprise and jj trek combined) and reminds us exactly why we have it in the first place.

I've never given "likes" before but this post tempts me.

Good job.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Actually DS9 was extremely in character with TOS. There was no real paradise in Kirk's era. Yes they were explorers. But they were also tasked in service to military security and realpolitik. It was a positive vision of the future. But not an ungrounded one.

The more pacifist happy hippy commie utopia Star Trek didn't put in an appearance until TNG. Which yes much of DS9 was a direct critical answer to. Largely by pointing out that you can't escape economics with fairy dust. Some way in some form the bill comes due.

And this was a result of Roddenberry not having a concrete plan of the 24th century economically and socially (vs. his vision of said century) that made sense, due to him being old and addlepated during The Next Generation.