Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

[Guy Gardener]

Mutated and altered, but it's still their DNA.

Janeway cheered that she raped Tom.

It's never a victimless crime.

 

[borgboy]

I never interpreted what happened to Janeway and Tom quite that way. Surely both of them weren't in control. If anything the alien lizard people raped both of them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There were no alien lizards.

They were evolved humans.

 

[borgboy]

ok, I don't remember all the details. Those evolved humans are the ones to blame for violating both Janeway and Paris.

 

[Melakon]

Those evolved humans were Janeway and Paris.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Evolution is biology compensating for environment slooooowwwwlllllllllyyyyyyyyyy.

Paris had a defective gene, and transwarp space is a weird environment that cued an accelerated spontaneous rapid evolution of Paris into a version of a human being that can thrive in Transwarp space... Or as close to thriving as a human being can get.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In that case the babies are doomed. Though they looked pretty healthy when they slithered into that mud pool.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Paris got to lizard by way of supetrintelligent asshole.

Human biologies attempt to create a being that can live in transwarp space, might have been a bust, but he had the intellect, time and resources to figure out where his final form would be best to be laid to retirement and made it so.

Although if Tom could figure out that the salamanders would live well on that moon, he must have decided not to become 24th century human again.

When a human ####s an animal it's called bestiality, but what's called when an animal ####s a human?

Paris had a couple days on Janeway.

That would be like one of us dating a monkey.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Human biologies attempt to create a being that can live in transwarp space, might have been a bust, but he had the intellect, time and resources to figure out where his final form would be best to be laid to retirement and made it so.

With Janeway. Yes. Yes.

 

[Melakon]

Props to Guy for subtly working the words "bust" and "laid" into a sentence.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Those words just lept out at you didn't they.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I have an attack bust.

Here's the problem with the differential between the origin of their infections.

Janeway died (Paris died briefly during the transformation.) and couldn't put up a fight in the beginning, but by the end, Paris would have become a full salamander a day before Janeway when she had the will and opposable thumbs enough to say "screw this, I'm going home" yet she didn't.

 

[exodus]

I'm not accepting any labels, I just acknowledge that the remarks were being aimed at me. I'm passionate about Star Trek, and Kes is one of my very favorites. This is a thread about Kes, so I'm discussing her. I care about Kes, much in the way other people I know are seriously into their favorite athletes or reality tv show stars. I think it would be nice if we all stayed away from name calling, even if it's implied.

As for Kes and Tom, and the whole age thing. I didn't have a problem with Kes's age even when she was with Neelix. Well, not much. She's an alien with a different life cycle than ours. She seemed to be a young adult, and was being played by a young adult, so that's how I saw her. I never really thought they were a good match, but I did like that she cared about Neelix, and that her values on attractiveness seem to be pretty different than ours. For that matter, do we even know if Kes and Neelix were intimate? I don't recall off the top of my head if we knew if they were sharing quarters. I think they were, but my memory is pretty terrible.
But whatever issues with her age anybody would have, surely by the time the Year of Hell was going to happen Kes would be mature enough to have a relationship.
Now what did freak me out is the alternate timeline where Kes and Tom's daughter married Harry. That's just gross. He was there from the time she was born, surely like an uncle to her. How he could get together with a woman after seeing her grow up from birth, that is disturbing. I do get that she was going to live her whole life probably around people who knew her as a child, but you'd think she'd have gotten with someone not as close to her family. I imagine Kes probably didn't have much of a problem with it, as she'd have a different pov about the age issue, but I'm sure Tom didn't take it well.
If Kes did stay I wonder if that's where the story was going. Not exactly of course, but at least a relationship with Kes and Tom instead of Tom and B'lanna.

Neelix & Kes had separate quarters.

I think Tom & B' Lanna had better chemistry.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Kes and Neelix were cute during their soap opera binge..

 

[borgboy]

Kes and Neelix were cute during their soap opera binge..

I did love Kes and Neelix watching soaps. I still remember how Kes was fascinated by the non interactive format, but conceded there was something about being swept away by the narrative.
Thanks for the info on Kes and Neelix's living arrangement. I'm inclined to think they may not have even been sleeping together, but maybe they just liked having their own space.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't think they were sleeping together. I think Neelix was doing the right thing and waiting for her to want that kind of relationship, he was invested in being her caretaker (IRONY) and being seen as her hero who rescued her. That he didn't even know how they reproduced makes it seem like such a discussion never had reason to take place. Of course she outgrew him before it ever got to that stage.

 

[exodus]

Kes and Neelix were cute during their soap opera binge..

I did love Kes and Neelix watching soaps. I still remember how Kes was fascinated by the non interactive format, but conceded there was something about being swept away by the narrative.
Thanks for the info on Kes and Neelix's living arrangement. I'm inclined to think they may not have even been sleeping together, but maybe they just liked having their own space.

I think "Eloguim" too me says they weren't cause if they were, why would Neelix be surprised at the fact Kes wanted him to be the father of her child? It they were intimate, wouldn't he naturally expect it? Who else was in the running?

 

[Guy Gardener]

She was an Ocampan slave girl to her Kazon masters.

I can imagine while doing Business with the kazon, it made sense for Neelix at one point to stay over.

A bear skin teepee?

The point is that they tell Kes to go and keep Neelix warm or they'll cut her fingers off.

She gets in there, tries to do a sexy dance but just starts bawling.

Neelix apologises, offers her the bed, and he sets up his kit on the floor.

They talk all night.



I can see this situation playing out a few times before he finally "steals" the slavegirl from her legally entitled masters with Janeways help.

Before Voyager he wouldn't know much about her, and her species has been hiding underground for the last 10 centuries.

The sex talk might have happened early after he saved her.

The kitchenrat was told that they would have sex in two years.

Neelix marked it on his calendar.

 

[T'Girl]

Neelix & Kes had separate quarters.

I don't think they were sleeping together.

I kind of worked out that when they first came to the ship they were living together and having sex. Then at some point Kes requested quarters of her own, followed by a gradual reducing is their love making and a general discontinuation of their romantic relationship.

At some point Kes pulled out the old "I hope we can remain friends" speech on Neelix. In terms of them being boyfriend girlfriend, Kes was the one who brought that to an end.

When we first saw Kes she was in a pretty bad situation, the Kazon were obviously physically abusing her, and it may have been worse than that. Neelix saved her life, whatever Neelix did over the course of the show that made some fans dislike him, saving Kes out weighs any of that.

Neelix was Kes's hero, and I believe initially she was deeply in love with him for that reason. But while she likely always felt gratitude towards him, the romantic love faded with time.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

If they were sleeping together why didn't he know how they had babies? They would have had the contraceptive talk and she would have explained they didn't need to worry about it.. but Kes was not shy. She was completely straightforward about biology and she would not have made some jest about aunty yellow flo needed to show up first, she would have explained it to him in detail. Because she was like that. Science oriented.

But he knew nothing! He had noooo idea.