Could Captain Kirk have met the Cardassians?

[Ghost]

Hello all,

A bit of a brainfart question really, yesterday at some moment I was suddenly thinking of how I would design a 23th century Cardassian ship around the period of the first Five Year mission under Kirk. (sadly no drawings or designs of that idea yet)
But then I started to wonder if it would have been possible for Captain Kirk and the Enterprise crew to have encountered/made first contact with the Cardassians during the Five Year mission, between TMP and TWOK, any time between TVH and TUC.
How far did the Federation expand into the Alpha Quadrant during the 23th century? (probably could find it on an official or fan made map) And even if the Federation and Cardassian Union borders, bumped into each other, could advance Cardassian scout ships (perhaps looking for new territory to expand into) have crossed into Federation space?

Currently trying to think of an idea here of how that story would play out (Kirk meeting the Cardassians) without it being a repeat of "Balance of Terror" (a deadly game of 'cat-and-mouse' in space) or "Arena" (the confrontation between the Federation and the Cardassian Union being a case of cultural/territorial border mistakes) and something different instead.

But I would love to hear what other people's thoughts on this question are.

I am not a major Cardassian fan but I find them a well enough creation to the Star Trek universe, having their own identity (though they do feel a little Romulan-ish sometimes regarding military and manipulation), but I prefer them over the Klingons, and even if I do not like Deep Space Nine that much I do think the show's producers/writers did do a good job on developing that species and civilization.

 

[Cox of Seagulls]

DS9 mentioned a Cardassian living on Vulcan in the 22nd century and you can see a Cardassian corpse in Enterprise's Dead Stop IIRC, so it's very possible.

 

[Ghost]

In general I ignore Enterprise (sorry I don't like the series), but I do hold DSN canon so it is interesting that the Federation or at least the Vulcans did have contact with the Cardassians.
That does really make me want to know how the TPTB had Federation/Cardassian history in mind.

 

[Albertese]

I'm of the opinion that the Cardassians were a known quantity for a long time. But their policies were not very aggressive prior to the 2350s or whenever. Perhaps even their technology wasn't quite up to the standards of the nearby powers. I can see them lagging a bit behind their neighbors. For whatever reason, things took a turn for the worse and a military dictatorship arose that made big promises and was embraced. We get lots of hints that the Cardassian situation is a fairly recent development, within a generation or two of its beginning. In the 23rd Century, they may have been a quite benign, less than successful planet just plugging along. Kirk likely was aware of them, but wouldn't have felt threatened. Perhaps he would actually be rather surprised at how things turned out for them.

--Alex

P.S. At least the Kelvin Timeline, we know that they knew about Cardassians, as Uhura ordered a Cardassian themed cocktail in Star Trek (2009).

 

[Ghost]

Okay, less advanced, more benign, and perhaps somewhat isolationist because of the distance of their territory to the regions we saw in the original series and the movies.
I understand that the rise of the military government and the name Cardassian (I think that is a relative new name for themselves) is a rather new thing after their society fell into decline because of a lack of resources.

 

[C.E. Evans]

While I do think the Federation were well aware of the Cardassians during Kirk's time, I like to think that it was one of those oh so rare instances in which ships other than the Enterprise had contacts with them.

 

[The Wormhole]

While I do think the Federation were well aware of the Cardassians during Kirk's time, I like to think that it was one of those oh so rare instances in which ships other than the Enterprise had contacts with them.

"I'm Commodore Matt Decker of the Federation starship Constellation."
"Gul Lovor of the Cardassian Union, pleased to meet you."
"Likewise. Listen, I'd love to chat, but we're on an urgent mission to investigate something unusual which seems to be disrupting communications in nearby star systems. Afterwards, I'd love to get to formalize relations between our peoples."
"I look forward to it, Commodore"
Several weeks later:
"This Captain Ronald Tracy of the Federation starship Essex"
"I'm Gul Lovor of the Cardassian Union. We've been waiting to hear back from Commodore Matt Decker of the Constellation to formalize relations between our peoples."
"Commodore Decker was killed in action several weeks back, but I'd be happy to open talks between the Federation and the Cardassians. However, we're due for a planetary survey right now, but after that's done, we'll begin talks."
A few more week later:
"I'm starting to think this Federation doesn't want to be friends with the Cardassian Union."

 

[Jedi Marso]

Although possible, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to containing certain species and opponents to their respective eras. So I would prefer to think of there having been no official contact between Starfleet/ The UFP and the Cardassians in the 23rd Century, but that doesn't mean some limited contact was taking place.

Earth had its Boomers and such, some of whom probably wandered clean out of explored space as early as the late 22nd Century. Who can say where they wound up? Then there was the case of the lone Cardassian exile on Vulcan, as addressed in DS9 and the Enterprise relaunch novels. I believe the Cardassian equivalent of Cyrano Jones or Harry Mudd could have wound up trading in Federation space, telling stories and making friends LONG before there was anything like a diplomatic or official first contact between the civilizations.

So is it possible Kirk knew of them? Possibly, as in a story told to him by someone at the bar at a starbase or something like that, or a vague rumor alluded to by traders or prospectors who had staggered out a little farther than Starfleet had so far. Do I think there is some sort of official meeting on record, or established relations or such in the 23rd Century? No. The Cardassians are a TNG era race in that regard. The generation prior to Picard's (The starship captains when he was a junior officer) were probably the bunch that officially encountered and established relations with the Cardassians. In my head canon, anyway!

 

[Ghost]

Jedi Marso, I understand you regarding keeping certain species, technologies, ship classes, and so on their own time eras. Again this was just some brainfart that just came up when I was thinking yesterday "Hey, how would I design a retro looking Cardassian vessel?"

But yes, I can imagine traders perhaps getting into contact with the Cardassians, and the odd or so exile or trader managing to make it all the way to Federation space.
I myself also stick with the idea that official first contact happened between TUC and TNG, but this was a scenario I wanted to play with.

 

[uniderth]

It's fun to imagine what later series species would look like during the Star Trek era.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Jedi Marso, I understand you regarding keeping certain species, technologies, ship classes, and so on their own time eras. Again this was just some brainfart that just came up when I was thinking yesterday "Hey, how would I design a retro looking Cardassian vessel?"

But yes, I can imagine traders perhaps getting into contact with the Cardassians, and the odd or so exile or trader managing to make it all the way to Federation space.
I myself also stick with the idea that official first contact happened between TUC and TNG, but this was a scenario I wanted to play with.

I wasn't criticizing your idea, just expressing my thoughts on it. As for retro-ing a Cardassian ship, here's what I'd recommend: take the TNG era designs and go with something similar, but then smooth them out and texture them more like we saw the TOS Enterprise, Romulan ships, and Klingon D-7's. Less bumpy, less colorful, more gunmetal grey. Where the Cardassian ships have energy spines and such, tone down the colors and put louvered vents and stuff in the spots kind of like you see on the refit Enterprise.

I'm not artist enough to do a decent rendering of what I'm talking about, but you get the idea.

 

[Jay Dee]

What I'm curious about is if the Cardassians will be encountered in Star Trek Discovery. From what I've heard, it takes place before TOS, so I really wonder.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I like to think that it was one of those oh so rare instances in which ships other than the Enterprise had contacts with them.

Heresy!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I find the idea of "confining" various species and cultures to the era/shows we as viewers first met them as odd. Unless it's specifically called a first contact in the episode, it shouldn't be assumed they are recently contacted.

 

[Phoenix219]

Yup... there is no way to know when contact was made, and there is no reason to think it is post Kirk. The lack of Tellarites and Andorians in TNG doesn't have anything to do with their existance in TNG, either. You could assume there were Cardassians on the Enterprise during Babel, if you wanted to. Personally, I'd love to see a TOS style make up job for a Cardassian!

 

[The Wormhole]

Personally, I'd love to see a TOS style make up job for a Cardassian!

They'd still have gray skin, just no neck ridges or spoon for the forehead. This would be commented on when one of the modern shows did a time travel episode to TOS with Enterprise ultimately providing an explanation many would later accuse of being "unnecessary."

 

[Nerys Myk]

They'd still have gray skin, just no neck ridges or spoon for the forehead. This would be commented on when one of the modern shows did a time travel episode to TOS with Enterprise ultimately providing an explanation many would later accuse of being "unnecessary."

And a bad wig that shouts "THIS IS A WIG!!!"

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

Deep Space Nine didn't have that name for nothing.

As others have pointed out, there's been multiple references to them in various shows/movies at various times, so clearly the Federation was aware of them. But due to the distances involved, contact was almost assuredly limited, probably only taking place through third parties via trade and whatnot.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Deep Space Nine didn't have that name for nothing.

As others have pointed out, there's been multiple references to them in various shows/movies at various times, so clearly the Federation was aware of them. But due to the distances involved, contact was almost assuredly limited, probably only taking place through third parties via trade and whatnot.

"Deep Space" is probably a relative term. It's on the edge of Federation space. That "edge" may have existed for a while.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

"This Captain Ronald Tracy of the Federation starship Essex"

[pedant mode] EXETER! [/pedant mode]