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Could Bogey make it today?

I like Stewart quite a lot in Vertigo, but thank goodness it bombed at the time. If it had been a success, we might have had North By Northwest with Stewart and not Cary Grant. Yuck.

Possibly, but Hitch was smart :) Stewart and Grant fave actors in that period and he knew (correctly) which actor suited which film. So I don't think he would ever cast Stewart as Roger Thornhill. Just wrong actor for wrong part...
 
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^^ No. He isn't unusual looking in the least nor does he have any unusual or distinctive speech manner.

Yeah I did wonder if he weren't too handsome, but though he is, I dunno I still find him somewhat funny looking (in an appealing way)
 
For all his "childlike" on-screen persona, Stewart also had a commanding presence. The "temper flares" we see in Liberty Valance and Mr. Smith make us root for him, not scoff at him.

Interesting. I've always found Stewart hard to take seriously and felt he had the opposite of a commanding presence, but those are the two major roles of his I haven't seen yet. Now I wonder if they might raise my opinion of him. Definitely going to give them a shot.
 
Anyone who hasn't seen it, I'd recommend they check out Stewart's "Anatomy of a Murder." It's probably his best role, insofar as it does the best job of combining his "aw shucks" and "commanding" personas.

In it, Stewart plays a small town attorney, trying to make ends meet, who ends up getting hired to defend a U.S. soldier charged with murdering the man who (allegedly) raped his wife. George C. Scott plays the prosecutor and a very young (and incredibly-as in burn out your eyes-hot) Lee Remick plays the soldier's wife.

While it might be tempting to dismiss it because of all the courtroom novels/movies that basically ripped it off over the past 50-plus years (ie, everything by John Grisham), the film is one of the best courtroom mysteries ever committed to celluoid. It's dark, witty, ahead of its time (the rape subject matter was considered very explicit for the time) and Stewart is perfect as the attorney who needs a win more to get his fee than because justice demands it.
 
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^ That's a great move. Others where Stewart is kind of bad-ass are the westerns Winchester 73 and The Naked Spur. He's great as a morally ambiguous sheriff in Two Rode Together, which is otherwise OK but not great.

Of course he did have a commanding presence in real life: Fought to get in the army, fought to get sent into combat, flew at least 20 bomb missions over Europe, commanded a squadron, ended the war a full colonel and made one-star general in the reserves.

--Justin
 
Of course he did have a commanding presence in real life: Fought to get in the army, fought to get sent into combat, flew at least 20 bomb missions over Europe, commanded a squadron, ended the war a full colonel and made one-star general in the reserves.

Yeah, when Cracked did their 11 Celebrities Who Were Secretly Total Badasses article, I was really disappointed to not find Stewart on list, especially given some of the "badasses" that were.
 
Absolutely, Humphrey Bogart could be famous today. I mean, John Hamm looks almost exactly like him and he's doing pretty well.
 
Of course he did have a commanding presence in real life: Fought to get in the army, fought to get sent into combat, flew at least 20 bomb missions over Europe, commanded a squadron, ended the war a full colonel and made one-star general in the reserves.

Yeah, when Cracked did their 11 Celebrities Who Were Secretly Total Badasses article, I was really disappointed to not find Stewart on list, especially given some of the "badasses" that were.

That list's terrible! No David Niven?
 
For all his "childlike" on-screen persona, Stewart also had a commanding presence. The "temper flares" we see in Liberty Valance and Mr. Smith make us root for him, not scoff at him.

Interesting. I've always found Stewart hard to take seriously and felt he had the opposite of a commanding presence, but those are the two major roles of his I haven't seen yet. Now I wonder if they might raise my opinion of him. Definitely going to give them a shot.

It's pretty cool. In Valance, sweet, lovable Jimmy decks John Wayne with one punch!

The sequence starts out with Wayne's character teasing him with some well-aimed gunshots, remarking, "I don't like tricks, pilgrim...but that's what you're up against," etc.

Stewart walks up to him, and goes POW!

The Duke goes down, and Jimmy thunders, "I DON'T LIKE TRICKS MYSELF--SO THAT MAKES US EVEN!!!"

He also gives the bad guy a big tongue-lashing near the beginning of the film, as he tries to protect an older woman. Of course, the baddy knocks him flat for that, but still...
 
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is possibly the best Western I've ever seen. With The Magnificent Seven coming in second.

(I confess I've never seen The Searchers and I've only seen pieces of Shane.)
 
Mr. Cox, you've got great taste in Westerns, sir. :techman:

Valance is superb, complex--and fun, yet dark and emotionally gripping.

We've got John Wayne awesomeness ("That's MY steak, Valance...YOU pick it up." :evil:) in spades--and a darn good, thought-provoking storyline, the climax of which actually helped inspite the ending of one of DS9's best episodes ("Cold-blooded murder...but I can live with it." Sound familiar? ;))

And John Ford didn't even need his typical spectacular Western location shots.
 
Absolutely, Humphrey Bogart could be famous today. I mean, John Hamm looks almost exactly like him and he's doing pretty well.
:wtf: Hamm looks nothing like Bogart.
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John_hamm.jpg


You don't see it? I see it.
 
The look is similar. But the voice isn't close -- and the voice is a big part of what made Bogart who he was.
 
I don't think I'd enjoy finding out. Humphrey Bogart is one of my favourite actors, but I think certain actors just fit at a certain time and place and wouldn't benefit being in another one. This isn't because I think his acting style was too old-fashioned or anything, but rather because it was better utilized by the kind of writing and acting that was common in movies during his time.

I just don't think there are enough movies and roles worthy of such a fine actor in this day and age. It makes me think of Eddie Murphy. Some of his first roles ("48 Hrs.", "Beverly Hills Cop", "Trading Places", and "Coming to America") were so perfectly suited to his talents, but it was all pretty much all downhill from there (with a few exceptions).

People often say he just made bad career choices, but I can't think of a lot of movies that came out in the 30 or so years since his first big role that he could have shined in. Marilyn Monroe, on the other hand, is someone I think should have had better roles and might have if she'd been born/started acting later or lived longer.

Agreed. I couldn't have stated this opinion better myself.

By the same token there are popular faces/names out there today who I can't imagine would have gone very far even twenty years ago.
 
I just don't think there are enough movies and roles worthy of such a fine actor in this day and age. It makes me think of Eddie Murphy. Some of his first roles ("48 Hrs.", "Beverly Hills Cop", "Trading Places", and "Coming to America") were so perfectly suited to his talents, but it was all pretty much all downhill from there (with a few exceptions).

People often say he just made bad career choices, but I can't think of a lot of movies that came out in the 30 or so years since his first big role that he could have shined in.

Murphy has traditionally had a lot of input for shaping his movies and the parts he plays in them. For example, he was a writer and/or producer on some of his worst movies, including:

  • Norbit
  • The Klumps
  • Vampire in Brooklyn
  • Boomerang
You also have this interview with John Landis who, for what it's worth, describes how Murphy had changed by the time he made "Beverly Hills Cop 3" from a brilliant comedian into a prima donna:


TRADING PLACES and COMING TO AMERICA, he was very direct-able. On TRADING PLACES, he was fantastic. He was very young. It was his second movie, and he was full of enthusiasm and he was happy. He was a pleasure and a joy...He always took direction from me. He was great. On BEVERLY HILLS COP III, it was bizarre, because he didn’t want to be funny, and there was nothing I could do to make him funny. I actually learned later that he was very jealous of Wesley Snipes and Denzel Washington and Sam Jackson, all of these guys who are making these big action pictures.

I actually gave him a gag, and he said to me, “John, Axel would be a wiseass if he did that.” I said, “Eddie, Axel is a wiseass.” He says, “No, he’s a man now.” I thought, “Uh oh.” If you look at that movie, it’s like, “Come on Eddie, be funny,” and he’s not. He’s a very interesting guy. He’s really quite gifted with extraordinary talents, but now you only really see it when he’s in disguise.



Therefore, I think he deserves a lot of responsibility for his more recent movies being bad.

As for what movies he could have been in instead, well, he was nominated for an Oscar for Dreamgirls. However, instead of following that up with more "prestige" work, he made Norbit.

You also have to consider how many movies that were hits for other people he could have starred in.

Finally, given his success in the past with sketch comedy, if he had wanted to, I think he could have even done something like Chappelle's Show.

Marilyn Monroe, on the other hand, is someone I think should have had better roles and might have if she'd been born/started acting later or lived longer.

If she had lived longer she might have aged more into the kind of stuff that Liz Taylor was able to do. But if she had been born later I think she would have probably never made it big. In the 1960s and 70s, "full figured" women and comediennes were not in great demand. I think Monroe would have been too different from the blonde California athletic types that were all the rage by then.
 
Thank you to barnaclelapse for the support and G-Man for that very thoughtful and insightful reflection on Murphy. I've been wondering a lot lately about just why the hell he pissed away his legacy so badly (mostly because I've watched most of his 80s classics for the first time over the last 5 years) and your ideas are the best explanation I've read yet.

I could totally see his early success going to his head. It's a real shame he didn't start a career turnaround coming off the momentum of "Dreamgirls". He had the opportunity and didn't take it and even as he makes crap year after year, I still hope he will get back on track someday.

As for Monroe...well maybe I'm overselling her a bit since I'm a biased huge fan of hers, but I still think she would have been a star even if she'd started later. From what I've researched about her, she took her craft very seriously and I believe she had the potential to succeed as more than just eye candy or a figure of comedy. Whether she would have been taken seriously as such is uncertain, but I don't think it would have been impossible.

One reason I brought her up is because as a big fan of her look and charisma, I've watched a lot of her movies and I don't think a lot of them were as great as I'd hope movies featuring someone of her talent would be. I also didn't think she always got to play the most interesting characters. Of all the movies I've seen of hers, I think "Some Like It Hot" was the only one where she got to play a character with a lot of dignity (despite being fooled by that idiotic Tony Curtis character) that she seemed 'born to play'. It was always a joy to watch her sing, but a lot of her characters were disappointingly bimbo-ish.

Bogart, on the other hand, had so many great roles in his career that I wouldn't want to see anyone else play. Of course there's his indelible sad-eyed romantic in "Casablanca", the charming old drunken rascal in "The African Queen", and my personal favourite, his writer with a short fuse and violent temper "In A Lonely Place", which I think gained lot of resonance by playing against his screen persona as a kind-hearted soul.

Even in "Sabrina", where understandably people thought he was miscast due to the age difference between he and Audrey Hepburn, I thought he shined as a seemingly cold fish who is slowly thawed out by Hepburn's charm. The biggest reason I don't want to know if Bogart could make it today is that if he were around today, we may not have seen him in all of those roles, and I don't think I'd trade them for anything.
 
One thing about Murphy: when I looked at his IMDB page I noticed just how young he was (DOB 1961) when he hit it big. That's something that can easily take a toll on an ego.

In fact, I think there's an interesting question, sort of the reverse scenario to the Monroe hypothetical you posed, regarding what would have happened to Murphy if he had been a bit older when 48 Hours and Trading Places came out.
 
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