Could a few extra lines have saved 'Threshold'

[Roald]

It's been years that I've seen the episode, but I'm still pondering it to this day. How could an episode have been made that is universally regarded as the ultimate stinkbomb?

I've read many reviews, and I've come to the conclusion that most of the negativity concerns elements within the final act:

1. Paris' transformation is supposed to be an advance state of evolution;
2. Paris' transformation is suddenly called 'alien', and after that point, the transformed Janeway and their offspring are called 'alien';
3. The decision to leave the offspring on the planet;
4. The DNA Magic Wand.

I wonder... Could a few added and/or ommited lines have saved the episode. Cause the first 30 minutes are really not THAT bad..!

I think Braga's idea that evolution is not necessarily progress is a cool idea, but it is never conveyed well enough within the story. When Chakotay and Tuvok see the lizards, they could have said something like:

"My God... I thought they we're supposed to evolve."

"Perhaps they have, Commander. Some scientists believe that evolution does not necessarily result in progress."

Or something like that. They would have at least adressed the issue.

Regarding the 'alien'... Well, the word 'alien' should just have been removed from the script by someone. It makes no sense.

Paris could have said something like: 'Somehow, it feels wrong that we left my babies on that planet. Doesn't it?'

'I don't know, Mr. Paris. I think that planet is a friendlier enviroment for them than a starship.'

Something like that. Again, they would have at least acknowledged the issue.

Regarding the magic DNA, well, it bothers me less than the other points. If you would try to explain someone in 1500 that we're able to clone a sheep, he would probably tell you it could never happen. So I'm not bothered by science from the 24th century that we can't comprehend, even though in this case, it's a very convenient sollution.

 

[eepruls]

No.

 

[C.E. Evans]

A few extra lines wouldn't have saved "Threshold." The problem was in the entire story, IMO...

 

[Admiral Shran]

No.

 

[Kibbin]

In before

Paris: My god what a weird dream, remind me never to eat Neelix's cooking befor ebed again.

 

[Shazam!]

A few extra lines could not have saved an episode that has Paris and Janeway turning into lizards and having babies.

 

[Deks]

Well, I didn't really hate Threshold.
Furthermore, the consequences of what transpired with Paris could have been explain easily within the confines of the Trek universe.

And truth be told, evolution doesn't always necessarily turn into something 'better' or 'progress'.

Explaining away the crossing of Warp 10 threshold though given the fact it's an infinite velocity ... well, that could have been handled in a different way ... such as that the shuttle could have intersected with a specific subspace layer while approaching the threshold which pushed the shuttle over the said threshold.

The 'evolution' could have been explained away with the shuttle intersecting area of the universe that affected the Human DNA (plenty of phenomena already affected the Human body as it was in the Milky Way galaxy alone), and travelling through those areas via the said subspace layer accelerated the mutation vastly.

At least, that's how I see the 'evolution' aspect.
It either happened in a capacity where human evolution resulted in salamanders, or it happened because occupying a certain part of space/universe affected Human DNA in such a capacity.
Easily explainable.

As for achieving Warp 10 ... well, that one is a bit tricky given the whole 'infinite velocity' theory.
Then again, I suppose it's possible the shuttle's engines could have been accumulating energy/fuel from subspace itself.
Essentially, travelling at Warp 10 results in an inexhaustible power source because you crossed into a layer of subspace that interacts with the warp field in a manner it becomes a power source.

 

[SpyOne]

To refresh your memory of just how broken Voyager's answer to Spock's Brain was, you might want to visit here.
Bernd himself is wrong about a few things: infinite speed does indeed mean omnipresence, because you could deviate from your projected course, and by an infinite amount.
That's a big deal because it could break the universe. See, the time before the Big Bang is called the Domain of Energy. The time since the Big Bang is called the Domain of Matter. What comes after the Domain of Matter? No one knows, but if anything that is not currently omnipresent ever becomes omnipresent, we all get to find out. At least, if we don't all immediately cease to exist (which is not at all a safe bet).
So Tom Paris says to the Captain, "Hey Captain, I've got a cool idea for an experiment. If it works, it will mean the end of the universe as we know it."
"Sounds cool, Tom. Go for it."

It's not that the episode is unfixable, but a few lines of dialogue won't do it. You'd need to take it apart and tweak nearly every piece of it to make it not intensely stupid. I'd really like to do that, just to show how easily it could have been done, but every time I try I start to think about how this episode was actually shown on television and then I just want to cut myself and I kinda lose my enthusiasm.

 

[Piper]

Two lines could have saved Threshold. They go like this.

Brannon: Shall I write Threshold?
Jeri: No.

That could have worked.

 

[RyuRoots]

Two lines could have saved Threshold. They go like this.

Brannon: Shall I write Threshold?
Jeri: No.

That could have worked.

/thread.

But seriously, no, no few lines could have saved the episode. Nothing could've saved it because the story was ridiculously stupid from top to bottom in just about every way. Most glaring of which (for me), they don't understand what "theoretical impossibility" means. It doesn't mean that you can do it now that you have better dilithium. It's like thinking you can drive you car to the moon with no outside aid or modification if you start using Super Unleaded. AND WORKING.

 

[Lynx]

Yes!

We should have had an endscene with Tom Paris waking up in the middle of the night, realizing that all of it was just a nightmare after eating too much of Neelix's food before going to bed.

 

[RegFan]

Two lines could have saved Threshold. They go like this.

Brannon: Shall I write Threshold?
Jeri: No.

That could have worked.

Those two lines are the only ones that could have saved Threshold.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Two lines could have saved Threshold. They go like this.

Brannon: Shall I write Threshold?
Jeri: No.

That could have worked.

This does seem to be about the only thing that could have helped it.

 

[Kegg]

Honestly, the OP's suggestion just seems to compound the issue. The idea that they could 'evolve' as single entities, and that evolution has a set course, well, both are utter nonsense. Evolution is an adaption to our circumstances, and how do salamander adapt to the circumstances of the shuttle anyway? And it's an adaption over generations, not within the same person.

And then we can get into the transwarp thing, which, incidentally, makes no kind of sense at all, not even a little one (he becomes everywhere and sees everything and ends right back where he started - is this a propulsion system or a psychotropic drug?)

Basically. Every concept discussed in the episode is fundamentally idiotic, on so many levels, it's astonishing. And the episode hinges on the concepts it presents. That - and the technobabble - sink it like a lead balloon.

 

[ALF]

"Computer, end program."

It works every time.

 

[Kai Winn]

i've got no issues with treshold, it's an episode of voyager, my favourite series. the tng epsiode where the whole crew turns into freaks was a lot worse. what's wrong with the idea that screwing the laws of physics might mess with your genetics as well?

 

[Michael]

the tng epsiode where the whole crew turns into freaks was a lot worse.

Which, incidentally, was also written by Star Trek's resident "expert" on evolution and The Magic of DNA™ Brannon Braga.

what's wrong with the idea that screwing the laws of physics might mess with your genetics as well?

Personally, I find nothing wrong with the idea per se, if it is deployed in an entertaining way. Threshold, however, is not. And I don't think a few lines could have changed that.

 

[Withers]

If they would have cut out the "evolution" and lizard babies and all of that crap... an episode about Warp 10 (about warp factor in general, maybe explaining the scale a little in some passing dialogue, stating the differences here and there?) isn't a bad idea... especially since that's the kind of thing a crew trapped along way from home should be attempting.

When I think about it, this episode should have been a culmination of concentrated efforts over the course of a season or two- not just Paris waking up and deciding he's going to Warp 10 today where hordes of Federation Scientists haven't been able to do so with laboratories and test vehicles and mounds of data at their discretion.

What's the consequence of going to Warp 10? Well, not turning into a Lizard and mating with the Captain, okay? Not that. I don't know what it would be. Maybe that would have been a good episode to kill someone off with or something.

Either way, a few lines wouldn't have made all the difference. The fundamentals of the episode needed to change in order for it to not have been the absolute debacle that it was.

-Withers-​

 

[TheGodBen]

I think Braga's idea that evolution is not necessarily progress is a cool idea, but it is never conveyed well enough within the story. When Chakotay and Tuvok see the lizards, they could have said something like:

"My God... I thought they we're supposed to evolve."

"Perhaps they have, Commander. Some scientists believe that evolution does not necessarily result in progress."

Or something like that. They would have at least adressed the issue.

Actually, that would have been worse because it would have lacked subtlety and still have been a gross misrepresentation of how evolution works. Evolution is about a species (not an individual) adapting to suit its environment, and since Federation starships are designed as an environment for humans there is absolutely no reason why Tom would evolve away from the form that is already best suited for that environment.

The whole concept of the episode was that as humans advance technologically we will de-evolve, at least that is how Braga described it, and the problem with that concept is that it is based on complete nonsense. The only way to fix Threshold is to completely alter its core, at which point it would stop being Threshold and become an episode about Neelix trying to get the high score on Dance Dance Revolution, or something.

Regarding the magic DNA, well, it bothers me less than the other points. If you would try to explain someone in 1500 that we're able to clone a sheep, he would probably tell you it could never happen. So I'm not bothered by science from the 24th century that we can't comprehend, even though in this case, it's a very convenient sollution.

That fails to address why they don't use the magical new warp 10 technology to get home and use the DNA reset button when they get there. Once again, the concept of the technology is flawed and completely defeats the purpose of the whole series.

Two lines could have saved Threshold. They go like this.

Brannon: Shall I write Threshold?
Jeri: No.

That could have worked.

Too true.

 

[Ra'min]

A few extra lines wouldn't have saved "Threshold." The problem was in the entire story, IMO...

I agree. The transwarp drive (whatever that is) has been a defy for starfleet for decades. They have devoted thousands of engineers, huge ressources, to try to build it in vain.
And then Tom Paris, helsman, but also shuttle hobbyist, build one on board a ship stranded in the delta quadrant.
That makes no sense.

Let's transpose this to the real world.
A submarine (let's say british) is stranded on antarctica. The crew has to survive there. One of the crewmen has read wikipedia articles on nuclear physics, and is good with his hands. As life is somewhat boring in antarctica, he spends time buildsing the world's first fusion nuclear power plant, with a little help from a couple of other crewmembers.

Who would buy that plot ?