Controversies between fans based on misunderstandings

[Lance]

In terms of Australia being late to the party vis-a-vis joining a united earth government, and I apologise that I don't know if there's an analogous incident somewhere in US history, but here in Australia when federation of the six dispariate colonies under a single federal government was first being proposed in the 1800s, the entire affair rested on each of the colonies coming to the table, and if only one of them dropped out then the deal was off... and a couple of them (West Australia and Queensland) did in fact procrastinate and pull their support at various times, to the point where it looked like federalism was dead at some stages of the process (and it was only ultimately achieved in 1901 after significant concessions were made to the state of New South Wales to get them on board).

So, there are historical prescedents for this kind of thing. Obviously Australia *did* ultimately join the united earth in Star Trek's timeline, but I could understand if (for example) there were some doubts about it happening during the event itself.

 

[T'Girl]

Back in the day, one of the most frequent errors was that there was a character named Dr. Spock, who of course instead was in fact a real person.

Oh, yeah. And it's less common now that Doctor Benjamin Spock is less of a household name, but it still persists.

But if you think about it, wouldn't it make sense that Spock would have a Ph.D in something?

Probably more than one.

 

[FormerLurker]

Corporal Captain said:
Madeline Kahn spelled it the other way.

So I said:
So did Sammy Kahn. One is a title from central Asia, the other is a Middle Eastern surname, usually ethnic Jewish.

Yes, but the Star Trek villain is Khan, and, honestly, which spelling better fits a legendary world conqueror? Khan as in Genghis Khan, or "Kahn" as in Sammy Cahn.

Well, I did say the two spellings have different origins. A legendary world conqueror from central Asia? Khan, of course, that's where the title comes from.

Trust me, it's not just Germans who get it wrong on a regular basis!

And then, of course, there's the X-Man frequently referred to as "Rouge."

Or the Doom Patrol villain Madame "Rogue", for that matter.

It does throw me a bit though that Dax's ex wife is Kahn.

The german word for "madness" is "Wahnsinn". I have long since made "Khansinn" out of it. Or "Kahnsinn"????? Whatever

What's the difference between 'Wahnsinn' and 'Verruckt'?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Timo has a way of interpreting things in the exact opposite way they were intended. He's previously described Kirk as one of the greatest movie villains in Star Trek history.

^ This. He's also claimed that "Day of the Dove" is definitive proof that Chekov had a brother named Pyotr, instead definitive proof that he's an only child.

Even their names are incredibly uniform with that, rather silly rule of males starting with S and ending with k and all females starting with "T' ".

This naming convention was more of a general rule than anything else, as Stonn in "Amok Time" didn't fit the pattern. And it pretty much went away for good once the male Savik became the female Saavik when STII was rewritten.

I always got the impression that Saavik's name was actually an affectation of her Romulan heritage that was in the earliest drafts and even in some cut scenes. The Romulans seemed to flip "S" and "T" names from the Vulcan genderized standards. Saavik and Sela were females and, even though we never knew the Romulan commander's name in "Enterprise Incident", her second in command was Sub-Commander Tal.

As stated by others, Tuvok's name breaks all those supposed standards, but prior to his character's creation, there did seem to be something there in the way of a pattern initially. Although, Memory Alpha has a broad list of Romulan character names which clearly show greater deviation from the standard to the point where there really is no standard. "S" and "T" names, however, appear to be the majority, as with Vulcans. That appears to be an intentional similarity.

Additionally, there was also Valeris in TUC which breaks the mold. IIRC, the novelization briefly explains her odd name choice as being attributed to having its origins in Klingon (of all things), as the word for "peace". I remember her being particularly incensed by that. Then again, perhaps I'm having a senior moment and mis-remembering that bit of trivia. It's been so long, I honestly can't remember the details of that one.

 

[Kilana2]

It does throw me a bit though that Dax's ex wife is Kahn.

The german word for "madness" is "Wahnsinn". I have long since made "Khansinn" out of it. Or "Kahnsinn"????? Whatever

What's the difference between 'Wahnsinn' and 'Verruckt'?

"Wahnsinn" means madness.
Verrueckt = crazy, nuts, insane. Essentially the same, except you can turn "Wahnsinn" into "Khansinn". It´s a pun.

 

[f14peter]

Back in the day, one of the most frequent errors was that there was a character named Dr. Spock, who of course instead was in fact a real person.

Oh, yeah. And it's less common now that Doctor Benjamin Spock is less of a household name, but it still persists. PBS made that same mistake on its website only a few years ago, while promoting a documentary on the history of science fiction TV.

Well, maybe going out on a limb but I'd take a WAG that Spock, as in Starfleet-Officer-turned-Federation-Ambassador holds a doctorate ... or twenty

 

[Kilana2]

The german word for "madness" is "Wahnsinn". I have long since made "Khansinn" out of it. Or "Kahnsinn"????? Whatever

What's the difference between 'Wahnsinn' and 'Verruckt'?

"Wahnsinn" means madness.
Verrueckt = crazy, nuts, insane. Essentially the same, except you can turn "Wahnsinn" into "Khansinn". It´s a pun.

And "Wahnsinnd"/"Khansinn" is contagious.

 

[doubleohfive]

Another one, also related to "Generations". Right after the movie came out, Jonathan Frakes appeared as a guest star on DS9, playing Thomas Riker, who was impersonating William Riker for this particular story. A couple of confused questions came out of that one: "Why did Riker talk about being on leave from the Enterprise when the Enterprise was destroyed?" (Answer, the Stardates in that episode were a couple of hundred less than the Stardates quoted in "Generations". Therefore the DS9 episode occurred first chronologically, even if it was filmed later.)

Well, to be fair -- "Defiant" aired the week of November 21, 1994. Star Trek Generations was released the week before, on November 18th. I think it's obvious the DS9 episode was done as a sort of perpendicular tie-in and promotion-without-actually-promoting the film, given the timing of broadcast and release, respectively.

Or, if you want to get down and nerdy about it -- and believe me, I loathe using references to stardates to justify anything, but here goes: Generations has a stardate of 48632.4, while "Defiant" takes place on and around 48467.3, so clearly the episode's events take place before the events of the feature film.

 

[Kilana2]

I don´t know about translations/dubbing in other countries, but the mispronounciation of some names in the German episodes drive me nuts: Gowron (Gah-ron), Brunt (Broont), Risa (Riiiiiiiiiiihsa). Daystorm Institute instead of Daystrom Institute

 

[Enterprise1701]

Another one, also related to "Generations". Right after the movie came out, Jonathan Frakes appeared as a guest star on DS9, playing Thomas Riker, who was impersonating William Riker for this particular story. A couple of confused questions came out of that one: "Why did Riker talk about being on leave from the Enterprise when the Enterprise was destroyed?" (Answer, the Stardates in that episode were a couple of hundred less than the Stardates quoted in "Generations". Therefore the DS9 episode occurred first chronologically, even if it was filmed later.)

Well, to be fair -- "Defiant" aired the week of November 21, 1994. Star Trek Generations was released the week before, on November 18th. I think it's obvious the DS9 episode was done as a sort of perpendicular tie-in and promotion-without-actually-promoting the film, given the timing of broadcast and release, respectively.

Or, if you want to get down and nerdy about it -- and believe me, I loathe using references to stardates to justify anything, but here goes: Generations has a stardate of 48632.4, while "Defiant" takes place on and around 48467.3, so clearly the episode's events take place before the events of the feature film.

Maybe I'm confusing this with a different work, but there seems to be a persistent belief that Voyager was lost in the Delta Quadrant after the destruction of the Enterprise-D. Even the 2006 reference book Voyages of Imagination places Generations before "Death Wish" in its Star Trek timeline. This is in spite of the stardate of "Caretaker" being 48315.6 while the stardate of Generations is 48632.4. Maybe it's because Generations came out on 18 November 1994 while "Caretaker" debuted on 16 January 1995.

 

[The Wormhole]

Even the 2006 reference book Voyages of Imagination places Generations before "Death Wish" in its Star Trek timeline.

Generations is before Death Wish. As you say, Generations is stardate 48632.4 while Death Wish is stardate 49301.2.

Also, it's important to note, that even though the 24the century shows tried to make the stardates somewhat consistent, the writers never adhered to them for placement, especially cross series. For example, First Contact's stardate is 50893.5, which would place it between the DS9 episodes Children of Time (50814.2) and Empok Nor (50901.7). Yet, the Borg attack from First Contact is mentioned on DS9 in the much earlier episode In Purgatory's Shadow.

 

[tafkats]

I always got the impression that Saavik's name was actually an affectation of her Romulan heritage that was in the earliest drafts and even in some cut scenes. The Romulans seemed to flip "S" and "T" names from the Vulcan genderized standards. Saavik and Sela were females and, even though we never knew the Romulan commander's name in "Enterprise Incident", her second in command was Sub-Commander Tal.

As stated by others, Tuvok's name breaks all those supposed standards, but prior to his character's creation, there did seem to be something there in the way of a pattern initially. Although, Memory Alpha has a broad list of Romulan character names which clearly show greater deviation from the standard to the point where there really is no standard. "S" and "T" names, however, appear to be the majority, as with Vulcans. That appears to be an intentional similarity.

Additionally, there was also Valeris in TUC which breaks the mold. IIRC, the novelization briefly explains her odd name choice as being attributed to having its origins in Klingon (of all things), as the word for "peace". I remember her being particularly incensed by that. Then again, perhaps I'm having a senior moment and mis-remembering that bit of trivia. It's been so long, I honestly can't remember the details of that one.

There's also Dr. Selar in TNG. And Taurik, the ensign in "Lower Decks."

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Vulcan women took a T'___ name only upon marriage (or probably betrothal, since T'Pring was the first Vulcan female we saw and she wasn't married yet), but I don't know if that was ever anything other than fanon.

 

[The Wormhole]

I always got the impression that Saavik's name was actually an affectation of her Romulan heritage that was in the earliest drafts and even in some cut scenes. The Romulans seemed to flip "S" and "T" names from the Vulcan genderized standards. Saavik and Sela were females and, even though we never knew the Romulan commander's name in "Enterprise Incident", her second in command was Sub-Commander Tal.

As stated by others, Tuvok's name breaks all those supposed standards, but prior to his character's creation, there did seem to be something there in the way of a pattern initially. Although, Memory Alpha has a broad list of Romulan character names which clearly show greater deviation from the standard to the point where there really is no standard. "S" and "T" names, however, appear to be the majority, as with Vulcans. That appears to be an intentional similarity.

Additionally, there was also Valeris in TUC which breaks the mold. IIRC, the novelization briefly explains her odd name choice as being attributed to having its origins in Klingon (of all things), as the word for "peace". I remember her being particularly incensed by that. Then again, perhaps I'm having a senior moment and mis-remembering that bit of trivia. It's been so long, I honestly can't remember the details of that one.

There's also Dr. Selar in TNG. And Taurik, the ensign in "Lower Decks."

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Vulcan women took a T'___ name only upon marriage (or probably betrothal, since T'Pring was the first Vulcan female we saw and she wasn't married yet), but I don't know if that was ever anything other than fanon.

First I've ever heard of this. though, this has me wondering, have we ever met any Vulcan women with the T' names who we know for a fact weren't married or betrothed?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Anybody wonder why all human names don't start with O'? No?

 

[borgboy]

I always got the impression that Saavik's name was actually an affectation of her Romulan heritage that was in the earliest drafts and even in some cut scenes. The Romulans seemed to flip "S" and "T" names from the Vulcan genderized standards. Saavik and Sela were females and, even though we never knew the Romulan commander's name in "Enterprise Incident", her second in command was Sub-Commander Tal.

As stated by others, Tuvok's name breaks all those supposed standards, but prior to his character's creation, there did seem to be something there in the way of a pattern initially. Although, Memory Alpha has a broad list of Romulan character names which clearly show greater deviation from the standard to the point where there really is no standard. "S" and "T" names, however, appear to be the majority, as with Vulcans. That appears to be an intentional similarity.

Additionally, there was also Valeris in TUC which breaks the mold. IIRC, the novelization briefly explains her odd name choice as being attributed to having its origins in Klingon (of all things), as the word for "peace". I remember her being particularly incensed by that. Then again, perhaps I'm having a senior moment and mis-remembering that bit of trivia. It's been so long, I honestly can't remember the details of that one.

There's also Dr. Selar in TNG. And Taurik, the ensign in "Lower Decks."

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Vulcan women took a T'___ name only upon marriage (or probably betrothal, since T'Pring was the first Vulcan female we saw and she wasn't married yet), but I don't know if that was ever anything other than fanon.

First I've ever heard of this. though, this has me wondering, have we ever met any Vulcan women with the T' names who we know for a fact weren't married or betrothed?

In the Crucible trilogy there's a human baby girl adopted by a Vulcan who has a T in front of her very human name. So sort of.

 

[Orphalesion]

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Vulcan women took a T'___ name only upon marriage (or probably betrothal, since T'Pring was the first Vulcan female we saw and she wasn't married yet), but I don't know if that was ever anything other than fanon.

I can't vouch for the validity of it, if it is true then probably only for some parts of the Novelverse.
Still it is a very interesting, even beautiful bit of fanon, I like it.
At the same time it could just be a common way female names are formed in Vulcan (there are exception like Dr. Selar) like how Latin and Hebrew derived girls names often end in "a" or "ah" (Julia, Renata, Deborah, Leah, Gloria etc.)

I don´t know about translations/dubbing in other countries, but the mispronounciation of some names in the German episodes drive me nuts: Gowron (Gah-ron), Brunt (Broont), Risa (Riiiiiiiiiiihsa). Daystorm Institute instead of Daystrom Institute

Oh man I remeber those from catching Star Trek on TV when visiting my German grandma or during my prac in Bremen.
For some reason I remembered one of Deanna's lines in Haven sounding very clunky with German grammar:
"Ich bin immer noch eine Betazoid" (and they had this really funky way of pronouncing Betazoid as well, something with like the German way "y" is sometimes pronounced even though there is no "y" in it.
Anyway, schould it not have been something like:
"Ich bin immer noch eine Betazoidin" with the female ending?
And I think in some other episodes it's changed to Betazoide, with the last "e" pronounced very much like the first one a bit like American "Betazoiduh"

No say "German grammar with my German grandma" ten times fast!

 

[tafkats]

It looks like there have been all kinds of insanely detailed fanon theories about Vulcan names over the years, including:

• That first-born Vulcan males always have "S" names, second-born "T," third-born "V" and fourth-born "K."
• That a "K" sound in a male name or a "T" prefix on a female name means the child was conceived during Pon Farr.
• That the second letter of a Vulcan female's name signifies birth order ("P" for first, "M" for second, "V" for third and "A" for fourth).

It gets pretty absurd.

Orphalesion's explanation makes a lot more sense to me -- that a "T" prefix for women and an "S---k" construction for men happen to be common in a lot of names, but it's not a rule or any kind of organized system.

 

[Ziriath]

Also in DS 9 there is admiral Sitak, who is a woman. So if there's any system in the names, it works some way we cannot understand without further knowledge.
There wasn't a T'____ man yet though, as far as I know.

 

[tafkats]

A boy named T'Sue?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Also in DS 9 there is admiral Sitak, who is a woman. So if there's any system in the names, it works some way we cannot understand without further knowledge.
There wasn't a T'____ man yet though, as far as I know.

Memory Alpha has this list.

Check out:

T'Klaas