Command Dilemma in Doomsday Machine

[CoveTom]

I realize there may be no exact real life analogue in today's militaries, but I was interested in the thoughts of any of our knowledegable military folks about how two command dilemmas that presented themselves in "The Doomsday Machine" would be handled in real life. To wit:

1. Commanding officer puts first officer in command while off the ship. Higher ranked officer, but not one actually posted to the ship, comes on board. Can higher ranked officer assume command, or does the ship's actual first officer have the right to stay in command based on being assigned to the ship and having been put in command by the ship's commander?

2. Ship's commanding officer is now actually in communication with the ship. Higher ranked officer still asserting that he is in command. Can the legitimate commander of the ship assert his authority to hand command back over to his first officer, or does the flag officer win that battle?

Just curious...

 

[Trimm]

I can't speak to the real world chain of command with any authority, but I do seem to recall being told that the actual chain of command is somewhat independent of rank structure.

 

[Timo]

Just for the sake of accuracy and interest, here's how Decker thinks he's entitled to commanding the ship:

"Mister Spock, I'm officially notifying you that I'm exercising my option under regulations as a Starfleet Commodore, and that I am assuming command of the Enterprise."

"Option" and "as Commodore"... Might be it's not a general rule that allows anybody of superior rank to wrestle command from an inferior, but rather a special regulation related to Commodores taking charge of individual ships in their flotilla or something.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CoveTom]

It's also worth noting that Spock agrees with Decker that he has the authority to do so. Now, it's possible that both of them are misinterpreting and/or misapplying a regulation that is not meant to apply in that circumstance. I tend to think, though, that Decker does, at least under normal circumstances, have the authority he claims.

What I find difficult to accept, though, is that regulations don't provide a way for either Spock or McCoy to overrule him given the mental state he is obviously in. Even without an official exam, the man has just witnessed the deaths of his entire crew, has had a breakdown in front of Kirk and McCoy in which he blames himself for the death of his crew, and is obviously not in a state fit to assume command. At the very least, McCoy should be able to order an examination, rather than having his hands tied until Decker decides he wants to volunteer to go to sickbay. Without that authority, McCoy's ability to remove someone from command who is unfit seems rather meaningless.

None of that bears on the original question, of course, of how regulations in today's military would handle such a situation, but it's all interesting to explore none-the-less.

 

[Knight Templar]

It has been suggested that when Spock said to McCoy that if he could certify that Commodore Decker was medically unfit for command that Spock was really trying to avoid allowing Decker to take command by hoping that McCoy would go on the record that Decker was found aboard the Constellation in a state of severe shock.

Decker himself must've considered this possible as he appears suddenly startled when McCoy seems about to take the hint.

But then McCoy fumbles the ball when asked about his medical findings and McCoy says he hasn't had a chance to examine Decker, ignoring the point that IIRC McCoy scanned Decker with a medical tricorder aboard the Constellation.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think McCoy's scan only determined Decker was physically okay, but he would need to do an official psychological examination to declare the commodore as being unfit for command.

 

[CoveTom]

But, again, what sense does that make? You have someone who is showing obvious signs of psychological trauma. Both the first officer and the chief medical officer have strong, legitimate reasons for suspecting he is mentally unfit for command. Yet they can't do anything about it, because Decker hasn't had time to make an appointment for an exam? Yes, I know it's a crisis situation, but a crisis situation is exactly the worst time to have a mentally unstable person in command.

If McCoy doesn't have the authority to order the captain to undergo medical testing, and yet the results of medical tests are required to relieve him of command, then McCoy essentially has no authority at all.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I think it was suggested that a flag officer has the authority under unspecified starfleet regulations to commandeer the ship.

 

[Admiral2]

But, again, what sense does that make? You have someone who is showing obvious signs of psychological trauma. Both the first officer and the chief medical officer have strong, legitimate reasons for suspecting he is mentally unfit for command. Yet they can't do anything about it, because Decker hasn't had time to make an appointment for an exam? Yes, I know it's a crisis situation, but a crisis situation is exactly the worst time to have a mentally unstable person in command.

If McCoy doesn't have the authority to order the captain to undergo medical testing, and yet the results of medical tests are required to relieve him of command, then McCoy essentially has no authority at all.

Exactly.

Thanks to trek, too much has been made of a CMO's supposed authority to relieve a commanding officer of his duties. It's one thing if the captain's lost three of his limbs in battle and is bedridden. We're talking about Decker's mental state, not his physical one, and while he is obviously under extreme emotional distress, there's a big leap to say that makes him unfit for command. There have been times throughout the series where Kirk boy's been under extreme emotional distress and only once did anybody go through any serious effort to relieve him of command - and that time his body was as frail as his mind.

It's not the same with Decker. He's still upright and he's still breathing and he's still focused on the enemy and he still outranks all of the big three, and under those circumstances IRL it would take a full-on mutiny or court martial to remove him from command once he'd assumed it. Just the doctor's or the First Officer's word on his fitness wouldn't be enough. All the senior officers aboard would need to agree, and if at the follow-on hearing the higher ups disagreed, they'd all be screwed.

If Decker does have the right to assume command (and there's canon evidence he does; the same thing happened in the other ep I mentioned) then he has no legal obligation to relinquish it on Spock's, McCoy's or Kirk's say-so alone. He can always relinquish it voluntarily, but trying to force him out would earn his subordinates more problems than removing him solved in the long run.

 

[Knight Templar]

I'm not sure what Kirk would've done differently if the Enterprise had been successful in beaming him, Scotty, and the damage control party back before the transporter was knocked out.

Kirk would probably have heeded Spocks advice to move out of range of the machine's interference and warming Starfleet Command. But afterward...

I can see Captain Kirk moving to engage the Planet Killer then. It is not like he could stand back and allow the machine a free crack at the Rigel colonies. At the very least by attacking the machine and then beginning a strategic withdrawal, the Enterprise might've been able to draw the machine away from Rigel and give Starfleet more time to send reinforcements.

 

[C.E. Evans]

But, again, what sense does that make? You have someone who is showing obvious signs of psychological trauma. Both the first officer and the chief medical officer have strong, legitimate reasons for suspecting he is mentally unfit for command. Yet they can't do anything about it, because Decker hasn't had time to make an appointment for an exam? Yes, I know it's a crisis situation, but a crisis situation is exactly the worst time to have a mentally unstable person in command.

If McCoy doesn't have the authority to order the captain to undergo medical testing, and yet the results of medical tests are required to relieve him of command, then McCoy essentially has no authority at all.

But isn't it a case that there has to be actual proof before McCoy can do something like that? Otherwise it becomes mutiny?

 

[Maurice]

First, Bones found Decker in a state of shock and said so. That's enough to say he's not fit for duty.

Second, Spock should have been able to estimate the range of the DDM's interference based on when they started having trouble on their approach to the system where they found the Constellation, and should have suggested, "We warp that far out of range, notify Starfleet, then reintercept the device in an effort to ascertain how to stop or distract it."

Speaking of distracting it, the DDM followed them until they got out of a particular range. They could have tried to get within and stay just inside that radius and lure the thing away, perhaps towards some other uninhabited solar system that it could munch on to keep it busy while trying to figure out what to do and/or reinforcements to arrive.

It's a great episode, but Spock's not logical in it.

 

[C.E. Evans]

First, Bones found Decker in a state of shock and said so. That's enough to say he's not fit for duty.

The only thing is that Decker recovered from that. He was able to compose himself, exert his authority, and give orders, even if the orders were ones the first officer and ship's doctor didn't agree with. When Spock threatened to relieve Decker on the grounds of his orders being suicidal, Decker knew to back off.

 

[CoveTom]

If Decker does have the right to assume command (and there's canon evidence he does; the same thing happened in the other ep I mentioned) then he has no legal obligation to relinquish it on Spock's, McCoy's or Kirk's say-so alone. He can always relinquish it voluntarily, but trying to force him out would earn his subordinates more problems than removing him solved in the long run.

I suspect that once the crew was back in contact with Kirk, and he was clearly against Decker being in command, it was all over from a practical standpoint. Doesn't matter what the regulations said at that point, and Decker knew it. The crew is fiercely loyal to their captain, and now you have the captain, the first officer, and the chief medical officer all saying that Decker was cuckoo. No one would have followed his orders at that point. That's why he agreed to step down.

But isn't it a case that there has to be actual proof before McCoy can do something like that? Otherwise it becomes mutiny?

There has to be actual proof, and that's why it's stated that McCoy needs the results of tests to relieve Decker. However, if McCoy has a reasonable suspicion, based on evidence, that the commanding officer is unfit, he should have the authority to order the necessary tests. In fact, we've seen multiple times that the CMO has ordered the captain to submit to medical testing. If McCoy can't compel the requisite medical testing, then essentially the CMO has no authority at all to deal with an unfit commander. That commander could just refuse to undergo the tests and say "you have no proof."

 

[Knight Templar]

It is worth noting that by the time Spock and the rest of the bridge crew had encountered Decker he was largely back in control of himself aside from looking tired and disheveled (and looking at the Constellation that would not be held against him).

It was only McCoy, Kirk, and maybe one or two of the damage control guys that had seen Decker so in shock that he was barely able to speak.

Note that even as Decker continued to lead the Enterprise in attacking the machine, Spock continue to suggest withdrawing. I doubt Spock would've suggested it if he had not thought Decker might've changed his mind.

 

[C.E. Evans]

But isn't it a case that there has to be actual proof before McCoy can do something like that? Otherwise it becomes mutiny?

There has to be actual proof, and that's why it's stated that McCoy needs the results of tests to relieve Decker. However, if McCoy has a reasonable suspicion, based on evidence, that the commanding officer is unfit, he should have the authority to order the necessary tests. In fact, we've seen multiple times that the CMO has ordered the captain to submit to medical testing. If McCoy can't compel the requisite medical testing, then essentially the CMO has no authority at all to deal with an unfit commander. That commander could just refuse to undergo the tests and say "you have no proof."

I think it has to be a really extreme case (foaming at the mouth level) in which a test is totally unnecessary for the doctor to relieve a captain of command. I don't think Decker was quite at that point, though, but he might have been close. Decker was really just "guilty" of employing tactics against an unknown adversary that weren't working, but I don't think they were enough to relieve him of command by themselves.

 

[Wingsley]

I love the fact that someone brought this specific thread forth. I remember this issue being discussed in the past, but not having its own thread.

One major issue is being overlooked here: McCoy did not just scan Decker when they found him in the Constellation's auxiliary control room. McCoy also hyoed Decker, and I really doubt the hypo contained just vitamin supplements. Since it seems clear (to me, at least) that McCoy had to jack Decker up on a major stimulant (the commodore could barely talk when they found him), McCoy could have argued that Decker was assuming command while under the influence of drugs. I'm not saying McCoy gave him LSD or cordrazine or anything like that, but it must have been pretty stout to make him so talkative and moody so quickly.

So McCoy had medical grounds to relieve Decker. He just fumbled the ball.

I agree with the OP, though. I'd like to know what kind of authority a visiting flag officer has aboard someone else's ship in modern, real-world navies.

 

[C.E. Evans]

One major issue is being overlooked here: McCoy did not just scan Decker when they found him in the Constellation's auxiliary control room. McCoy also hyoed Decker, and I really doubt the hypo contained just vitamin supplements. Since it seems clear (to me, at least) that McCoy had to jack Decker up on a major stimulant (the commodore could barely talk when they found him), McCoy could have argued that Decker was assuming command while under the influence of drugs. I'm not saying McCoy gave him LSD or cordrazine or anything like that, but it must have been pretty stout to make him so talkative and moody so quickly.

So McCoy had medical grounds to relieve Decker. He just fumbled the ball.

Eh, I think the injection was more akin to smelling salts (or a glucose shot) more than a steroid.

 

[MacLeod]

It's also worth noting that Spock agrees with Decker that he has the authority to do so. Now, it's possible that both of them are misinterpreting and/or misapplying a regulation that is not meant to apply in that circumstance. I tend to think, though, that Decker does, at least under normal circumstances, have the authority he claims.

What I find difficult to accept, though, is that regulations don't provide a way for either Spock or McCoy to overrule him given the mental state he is obviously in. Even without an official exam, the man has just witnessed the deaths of his entire crew, has had a breakdown in front of Kirk and McCoy in which he blames himself for the death of his crew, and is obviously not in a state fit to assume command. At the very least, McCoy should be able to order an examination, rather than having his hands tied until Decker decides he wants to volunteer to go to sickbay. Without that authority, McCoy's ability to remove someone from command who is unfit seems rather meaningless.

None of that bears on the original question, of course, of how regulations in today's military would handle such a situation, but it's all interesting to explore none-the-less.

Well if the episode was made today, Refukation 619 might coiver it,as Decker was clearly emotional compormissed by the mission at hand

 

[Tribble Herder]

By naval tradition and regulation, no, Chekov would have more authority to assume command than Decker, for the simple fact that Chekov is assigned to the Enterprise, while Decker is not.

Army tradition and regulation, on the other hand, have the highest ranking officer present in command, regardless of the unit assignment.

So, it appears that Starfleet is a mishmash of Navy and Army (Kirk did describe Starfleet as a "combined service").