Coming out of an Isolation Era?

[Gagarin]

Been re-watching many TNG episodes - first time I've watched them in nearly 10 years - and one theme keeps standing out to me: "Non-involvement" and "Non-interference" in the afairs of other races/nations.

Currently watching Ensign Ro, and I'm shocked that the Federation did very little to stop the Cardassians aggression and expansion in the early 2300's. Going to Memory Alpha the backstory almost sounds like an official policy of appeasement toward them.

Also, Picard meantions "Cowboy Diplomacy" when talking with Spock, basically insulting the work he had done in the 2200's. Although I very much like Picard as depicted in TNG, I wanted to punch him in the face for that. He seemed to arrogant and "more enlightened than thou".

Was the Federation simply happy that the Klingons had become a non-threat and the Romulans dissapeared behind the Neutral Zone? Was Picard a product of a naive and spoiled era?

Certainly there wasn't a metanarative in place by the writers (and TOS not even close to 'over' when TNG started), but I'm interested in all of your readings in the situation. Starfleet, and the Federation, seem like very different institutions than they were in the 23rd century. Reading the backstory before TNG keeps sounding like "what happened to Starfleet/Fedation?" - rolling over to avoid conflict - ala "What kind of Jedi are these??" (from YouTube's Confused Matthew's review of the Star Wars Prequels).

 

[Finn]

Practically every power surrounding the Federation has conquered worlds with opressed subjects. Should the Federation take action for every occupied world?

The Federation would fall if they tried. Bajor probably wasn't the only world Cardassia occupied.

 

[Anji]

The question of whether to interfere in the affairs of another country is still an issue we struggle with today. The Prime Directive is not such a bad idea. I mean, how would you like it if another nation came in to "help" your country because they felt you were not living your life correctly?

 

[Mojochi]

Picard's Stargazer saw action in the Cardassian Wars. He was its commanding officer, at the time the Enterprise C was destroyed defending Narendra III from Romulan attack. You're really only looking at about 40 or 50 years of relative peace between the end of agression with the Klingons & the beginning of it with the Cardassians, during which time, the Klingons were hardly allies, & the Rommulans were not so hidden as one might think, if they were engaged with the Klingons. It's always been a dangerous universe. I certainly wouldn't call them naive. Probably just regrouping

 

[Arpy]

The Feds fought the Cardassians, Talarians, and Tzenkethi in that time...maybe the Jarada and Tholians too. Peace with the Klingons probably was a long drawn out process of incidents and summits with neither side entirely happy with the other's ways - the Klingons still run an empire after all.

 

[Admiral Shran]

There was another thread, I think in the General Trek Discussion forum, that dealt with this same topic - Federation Foreign Policy. The question asked was - Does the UFP have a weak foreign policy?

I'd say that they do. They do seem to appease their enemies quite often, at least the UFP government does.

 

[Gagarin]

Practically every power surrounding the Federation has conquered worlds with opressed subjects. Should the Federation take action for every occupied world?

The Federation would fall if they tried. Bajor probably wasn't the only world Cardassia occupied.

And yet, the Federation directs Starfleet to develop huge ships like the Galaxy class, carrying civilians, having every form of recreation possible, and sends it on deep space exploration, diplomacy, and errand running.

Exploration is expensive.
Is charting an unexplored starsystem more important than justice in the known ones?
Lots of resources expended to search for NEW life, while life much familiar is silently left to suffer and die.

I'm just trying to point out there's kind of an evil behind the freedom of the 'exploration' of Starfleet.

 

[Xerxes1979]

So the Federation should start pre-emptive humanitarian wars?

Seems like recipe for failure. Much like recent Amerikan foreign policy.

The size and scope of the Federation seems to have increased noticably in the decades between Kirk and Picard. In what way has incremental democratic expansion of the UFP not benefited the greatest number of people?

Is Bajor worth a dozen or more Federation colonies? The Bajoran race survies, the Bajoran culture surives. I can think of many ways in which an external force inserting itself into a situation outside its locus of control would loose a terrible and unpredictible set of consequences.

 

[Kelthaz]

The question of whether to interfere in the affairs of another country is still an issue we struggle with today. The Prime Directive is not such a bad idea. I mean, how would you like it if another nation came in to "help" your country because they felt you were not living your life correctly?

Exactly.

No government has the right to go around the universe policing other planets to behave the "right way". On Earth alone there isn't a single country without a serious problem justifying an invasion under those terms. Should America invade Canada because of our seal hunt? How about Japan over their sick execution policies? How about Israel over the Gaza Strip? And let's not even get started on China.

Hmm, I almost feel like I should be posting this in TNZ.

 

[CoveTom]

The prime directive seems to me to be something that started out in the Kirk era as a sensible way to avoid undue influence upon other cultures. By the time of Picard, it feels to me like it's been perverted to the point that it's simply used as cover for rather cowardly stances that avoid taking action in cases where the Federation could actually do some good.

 

[indolover]

If I were the President of the Federation, I would have requested (even demanded) to the Romulans to rescind the Treaty of Algeron during the Dominion War, and let Federation starships carry cloaking devices. And not older models like the Defiant had, but up-to-date ones, just as the Romulans used themselves. For one it would have improved the war effort, and secondly, why be suspicious of a war time ally?

The Federation is too appeasing. ok, in conflicts both sides must reach a win-win. but it seems Starfleet always accepts the lesser end of the deal.

 

[Finn]

IIRC the Dominion were able to see through the romulan cloaking technology or at least suspcious of their presence while cloaked.

 

[BillJ]

Poor Bajor. Too bad they didn't find the wormhole fifty years earlier. Feds would've bitch-smacked the Cardassians back to the stone age.

 

[Ward Fowler]

^^ There's nothing wrong with a bit of "enlightened self-interest".

 

[Finn]

Poor Bajor. Too bad they didn't find the wormhole fifty years earlier. Feds would've bitch-smacked the Cardassians back to the stone age.

How so? An earlier dominion war would have occurred most likely.

 

[Gagarin]

The prime directive seems to me to be something that started out in the Kirk era as a sensible way to avoid undue influence upon other cultures. By the time of Picard, it feels to me like it's been perverted to the point that it's simply used as cover for rather cowardly stances that avoid taking action in cases where the Federation could actually do some good.

That's how it's impacting me as I get into TNG season after season.

 

[Kelthaz]

Poor Bajor. Too bad they didn't find the wormhole fifty years earlier. Feds would've bitch-smacked the Cardassians back to the stone age.

How so? An earlier dominion war would have occurred most likely.

What's the difference between the Dominion War starting in 2323 instead of 2373? Politically the Alpha Quadrant was about the same, so theoretically the Dominion War would have played out exactly the same. Starting it earlier would just prevent the Cardassian Occupation, which would have been a huge bonus for Bajor.

 

[Kaziarl]

Poor Bajor. Too bad they didn't find the wormhole fifty years earlier. Feds would've bitch-smacked the Cardassians back to the stone age.

How so? An earlier dominion war would have occurred most likely.

What's the difference between the Dominion War starting in 2323 instead of 2373? Politically the Alpha Quadrant was about the same, so theoretically the Dominion War would have played out exactly the same. Starting it earlier would just prevent the Cardassian Occupation, which would have been a huge bonus for Bajor.

There did seem to be quite a few of technological differences from one time period to the other for one. Of course the same would theoretically hold true for the Dominion as well.

Politically, I think at that time the Cardassians may have been less likely to become Dominion lackeys. They, along with Bajor, would probably be the first to be conquered, but they would have to be conquered just the same. Leaving the Dominion in a not quite as strong state as it was the way it happened.

The Romulans were still in an isolationist stage at that point, Nerandra asside of course, so it would likely have been harder for a 2323 Sisko to pull them into the war.

The Klingons of course would fight. We know that. It's the Honorable thing to do of course.

Might be interesting for someone to write an AU story about this. Maybe that will be another change in the JJ verse, who knows. But I do think it would play out very differently, even if the alpha quadrant defeated the Dominion in the end.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think there are frequently instances in which the Federation knows its none of its business to get involved in the affairs of others. While the Cardassians' annexation of Bajor was unfortunate, all sorts of unfortunate things are happening outside of Federation space all the time. The Federation simply can not police the entire Galaxy. It can offer humanitarian aid to besieged non-Federation worlds when it can (like with Post-Occupation Bajor), but the Federation can't afford to get involved in every armed conflict that pops up.

I think when the Federation is involved in a conflict, it's usually over territory or territory that the Federation has a vested interest in.

 

[Admiral Shran]

The prime directive seems to me to be something that started out in the Kirk era as a sensible way to avoid undue influence upon other cultures. By the time of Picard, it feels to me like it's been perverted to the point that it's simply used as cover for rather cowardly stances that avoid taking action in cases where the Federation could actually do some good.

That's how it's impacting me as I get into TNG season after season.

That's how it impacted me most of time as well. Especially in VOY, when they even refuse to share technology with would-be allies on Prime Directive grounds.