Code Of Honor: What Do You Think?
- Thread starter Moviefan2k4
- Start date
I thought Shades had some good moments, myself. Riker's last words before he went unconscious, for instance. And the final bit with him, Picard, and Data was cute. And besides, it had Pulaski in it, and Pulaski was awesome.
And the scenes they chose to replay weren't too bad.
As for "Emergence", they should have just had it end by having the ship become a fully sentient being, beam everyone off, and fly off into the stars. Wouldn't THAT have been a WTF moment!
Well, at least Trek had very few of them.
I must be doing something wrong, because I actually don’t mind “Shades of Gray” all that much.
Sure, it sucks that they had to do a clip show this early in the run of the show, but I found the framing story entertaining enough and the choice of the clips worked well to underscore the various stages of what Riker is going through.
“Justice”, “Too Short a Season”, “Eye of the Beholder”, “Man of the People” — those are the ones that come to my mind when I think about my least favorite episodes.
“Justice”, “Too Short a Season”, “Eye of the Beholder”, “Man of the People” — those are the ones that come to my mind when I think about my least favorite episodes.
I don't hate it. I watched it for the first time 4 years ago and don't really remember it but I wrote this in the thread "Redeeming S1 moments."
Watching "Code of Honor" for the "first" time now. I may have seen it in the 90s but I'm not sure. Some bits I like:
Watching "Code of Honor" for the "first" time now. I may have seen it in the 90s but I'm not sure. Some bits I like:
- Yar just flips that guy bringing the vaccine.
- Picard blowing up photon torpedoes 1km above the planet's surface. Wouldn't that still cause some serious effects, like shockwaves, EMP or something?
- CRUSHER: May I speak to you about my son Wesley? PICARD (daydreaming/giving zero fucks): What? (realisation) Oh. Yes. (looking away, thinking great I have to deal with this shit too now and almosts whispers). Alright.
- Crusher says Wesley's hiding in the turbolift because he's banned from being on the bridge. So Picard goes out there and Wesley's like "Sir I haven't stepped foot on the bridge" and Riker comes out of the turbolift with Troi and Data, somehow knowing what's going on and about to morph into attack dog to get rid of Wesley. Did someone call him in the communicator, was Geordi like "Hey Commander that kid's standing in the turbolift holding up traffic to the bridge, can you get up here and sort him out."
- Then Picard tells Wesley to go sit at Ops and everyone including Geordi is like WTF. PICARD: "Is the whole ship deaf?!"
- Data shitting on French to Picard's face.
- Troi seems pretty useful in that she is explaining their customs, behaviours, history etc
- RIKER: Yes, it seems reasonable put that way. But I warn you, if you get hurt, I'll put you on report, Captain. (I like the way Frakes grins and raises his eyes and points at his CO here)
- The music in the festivities makes me feel like I'm in Agrabah. Very striking.
- Troi bringing up the prime directive and talking about how Tasha should fight the lady were both good moments. She gets that this star trekking stuff is dangerous but they are all in danger every day they're out here. And getting that vaccine would be worth it.
- Geordi has a space razor! Why is this scene even here? Data is kind of unsettling here, reminds me more of Lore. Telling a joke to Geordi by staring at him unblinking and then stopping him from exiting the room, then forcing him back into the room even while telling that dumb joke, glaring at Geordi. I kind of feared for Geordi's safety. And then Levar has to laugh at Data's slip up but it sounds so forced I kinda want Data to snap and knock him unconscious. And then finally the plot catches up to this filler. lol
- Picard being self aware about the "Picard speech" before it was even a thing. Ha!
- They have a beautiful matte painting for the city with red hued sky even though the planet looks like any other class M and then also have the shittest looking combat arena jungle gym. Yareena's bright silver combat suit is atrocious.
- Wesley's hessian bag sweater and Riker forgot he stuck Wesley at ops at some point during the episode. Don't these people have rosters? There's over a 1000 people on this ship.
Fun fact: This is was my very first exposure to any Star Trek. I liked it enough then and... here I am now.
I watched it just recently. My main takeaway was that... it's a meh Season 1 TNG episode? I think the cries that it's racist are unfounded and rely more on bullshit "dogwhistle" type arguments.
It's one of those situations where it's just like, come on. The prevailing idea seems to be "The story isn't racist, it was just racist because they cast black actors for the story." Sounds like TNG should have just avoided casting black people, just to stay safe and not be accused of racism.
The episode is... kind of dumb. The Ligonians are throwaway, 2D villains. That's the worst offense of the episode.
I can give in to perhaps the word insensitive, but more accurately, lazy. The show was trying to portray a backwards, barbaric civilization. The writers drew from a sort of pop-culturized "history" to create the Ligonians. But racist? I have a litmus test for racism that consists of replacing the people in question. If the episode wouldn't be racist if the Ligonians were white, or asian, or latino, or south asian, or whatever... it's not racist if they are black.
I watched it just recently. My main takeaway was that... it's a meh Season 1 TNG episode? I think the cries that it's racist are unfounded and rely more on bullshit "dogwhistle" type arguments.
It's one of those situations where it's just like, come on. The prevailing idea seems to be "The story isn't racist, it was just racist because they cast black actors for the story." Sounds like TNG should have just avoided casting black people, just to stay safe and not be accused of racism.
The episode is... kind of dumb. The Ligonians are throwaway, 2D villains. That's the worst offense of the episode.
I can give in to perhaps the word insensitive, but more accurately, lazy. The show was trying to portray a backwards, barbaric civilization. The writers drew from a sort of pop-culturized "history" to create the Ligonians. But racist? I have a litmus test for racism that consists of replacing the people in question. If the episode wouldn't be racist if the Ligonians were white, or asian, or latino, or south asian, or whatever... it's not racist if they are black.
Doing that test actually just kind of reveals how vaguely racist the casting of exclusively black actors is for the way they are portraying the aliens. Because there’s no racist stereotype of “white people coming to steal our women”. How can you not see that at the very least it’s rather unfortunate to have black people as exotified, animalistic, tribalistic and savage thugs coming to the ship and kidnapping a white woman? I’m not even asking you to accept that they did that on purpose. But can you not see how that’s a problematic depiction that plays into some of the worst and most rascist narratives and stereotypes in existence?
I actually don't think "Shades Of Gray" is as bad as so many say.
They had only 3 days to film the season finale... 6-7 days is the usual amount. Budget was down to nothing, which is why we only got scenes in the transporter room, sickbay, and the planet. (Considering how little money they had to do this, the planet looked really, really good.)
The idea behind the episode is pretty solid. And it was a great reminder that space exploration is dangerous. (I always felt that was the recurring theme throughout TNG season 2... "Where Silence Has Lease", "Contagion", "The Royale", "Time Squared", "Q Who", "Shades Of Gray", etc. And several of them were left a mystery, like "The Royale" and "Time Squared".)
Because money was shifted to other episodes like "Q Who", a clip show was needed at the end of the season, particularly given the minimal filming time they had. I'd say it was a good tradeoff. And let's not forget that they had to scramble to get some scripts done at the beginning of season due to the WGA strike... and why filming started so late and the season started in late November (around the 20th, if memory serves me). It's ultimately why that season had 22 episodes instead of 26 like all other TNG seasons.
They had only 3 days to film the season finale... 6-7 days is the usual amount. Budget was down to nothing, which is why we only got scenes in the transporter room, sickbay, and the planet. (Considering how little money they had to do this, the planet looked really, really good.)
The idea behind the episode is pretty solid. And it was a great reminder that space exploration is dangerous. (I always felt that was the recurring theme throughout TNG season 2... "Where Silence Has Lease", "Contagion", "The Royale", "Time Squared", "Q Who", "Shades Of Gray", etc. And several of them were left a mystery, like "The Royale" and "Time Squared".)
Because money was shifted to other episodes like "Q Who", a clip show was needed at the end of the season, particularly given the minimal filming time they had. I'd say it was a good tradeoff. And let's not forget that they had to scramble to get some scripts done at the beginning of season due to the WGA strike... and why filming started so late and the season started in late November (around the 20th, if memory serves me). It's ultimately why that season had 22 episodes instead of 26 like all other TNG seasons.
It's hard to see this sort of thing as something the director didn't do on purpose, given the nature of the script used in the final episode. As demonstrated on two occasions in this episode, the crew actually compares the Ligonians to other cultures on Earth.
PICARD: Lutan, we are aware of many of your planet's achievements, and its unique similarity to an ancient Earth culture we all admire. On behalf of the Federation, therefore, I would like to present this token of our gratitude and friendship. From China's Sung Dynasty, Fourteenth Century.
DATA: For example, what Lutan did is similar to what certain American Indians once did called counting coup.
DATA: For example, what Lutan did is similar to what certain American Indians once did called counting coup.
Chinese, Native Americans, and just because Data made a big deal about it, the French. These are not cultures that someone should conclude were made up entirely of black people would think were "exotified, animalistic, tribalistic and savage". Russ Mayberry not only did this on purpose but he was also fired from the episode when Gene heard about the casting decision.
Still, as bad as this episode is on its own, it's worse when you watch it along with another Season One episode, 'Justice.'
This is generally what I was hinting at though. It's only racist or problematic if there was intent, or... if you make it racist or problematic.
It's terrible logic, and honestly feels sort of racist in and of itself, to suggest that if there is a role in a work that may possibly be read as a stereotype if we put someone of a particular race in it, so we shouldn't put those people into the role.
Intent and purpose are always important. The skin color of the actors is absolutely irrelevant. If what they're doing was racist, it's going to be racist no matter what. The actors being black doesn't suddenly make it racist.
To answer your specific question, no, I don't see how it's problematic. I CAN see how people might react on a very surface level based squarely on imagery and think "might be racist", but given the actual context and intent of what happens? No. I don't see that.
Honestly, if you want to talk about a racist TNG episode, it's not "Code of Honor", it's "Up the Long Ladder". OOOOFF, I will absolutely give you that one. THAT one is problematic, AND intentional.
EDIT -
Wanted to add an additional piece here... I may not agree, but what I can see and acknowledge is that others may some of these things as racist. Their opinion is no more or less valid than mine. I can't say "you're wrong and i'm right", I can only offer up my opinion and either agree or disagree with yours/others. I absolutely respect your right to your opinion, it doesn't have to receive my seal of approval. Diversity of thought is just as important as any other type of diversity.
Last edited:
I like the killer tree stuff and I like Riker's line about not getting mad at the hammer just because you dropped it on your foot.
I do wonder if there were trying to turn that stereotype of coming after the white women on it's head by having Yar not just be a damsel in distress but at the end of day basically saving herself by kicking ass in that deadly game. Also by making it less about sex and more about Lutan being political in his thinking. I mean they failed if that was what they were trying to do but I do wonder if they were thinking along those lines.
Lower Decks is a wussy for not going there yet.
Would people have called it racist if the Ligonians had been purple-skinned, wearing plaid costumes and Viking helmets?
(as an aside, there's a saying that "my culture/ancestry is not your Halloween costume", so if people could just lay off the Viking stereotypes, kthxbai)
This would have confused the hell out of Picard, because nobody cares about material possessions or wealth, so why would Tasha have taken anything? He's absolutely tone-deaf to anyone who doesn't have that rosy Starfleet/Federation/Earth bubble he lives in where the worst thing to happen to him lately is maybe getting the wrong Dixon Hill chapter on the holodeck.
At least we know now where Icheb got his sweaters. Wesley must have dropped his in the charity bin on DS9, they accidentally got loaded in with whatever other supplies Voyager took on there, and voila! Several years later they needed to find civilian clothes for a teenage boy, and there they were.
Picard's people are absently arrogant, ignorant and racist.
So true.
But this is a game.
Read the rules, and stomp the opposition.
Remember in Ensigns of Command where they were going through thousands of pages of legalese trying to find a loophole in their lengthy treaty with Sheliak?
The ligonese legal code must be shorter than that?
Also...
NIGHTLY survivor of marauding rape gangs, AS A CHILD. Lutan if he got his way, and married that girl, he was going to have his spine suspiciously removed during their honeymoon.
A modern solution to this episode of TNG, would have been for Yar and Yarena to have had a lesbian wedding.
Wait a hot fricking second!
Yar and Yarena? (Tzar and Tzarina?)
(asshole spellchecker on my phone just corrected Yarena into "Arena" which is a horse of a different colour.)
Does the word "Yar" denote status or rank, and Lutan completely misunderstood who he was dealing with?
Shit, if Lutan thought that marrying Yar meant that he got the Enterprise, then some of his choices he made were vindicated, if he was not wrong about some basic assumptions, and dumb.
So dumb.
Did they all wear turbins?
Is not wearing a turbin, for these aliens, highly errotic?
Maybe, but only the boys wore turbins. NEVER MIND... But if Riker had had his beard at that time, those ligonalian women would have lost their shit.
Last edited:
I don't think it was racist either, in fact it was the reverse...they assigned traits from several different cultures, none were stereotypically African American This was also an example of a planet with an all black cast, since TOS had mostly all white planets. It was considered progressive by the producers.
Where the execution falls apart is in the real world mostly. Apparently the director was actually racist or directed the episode in a biased manner and was fired. I think this colors the cast's view of the episode.
I think this episode can also be faulted for being a TOS clone, creating a culture specifically to look inferior in order to be corrected. That can be interpreted as racist, though it's mostly a TOS trope that didn't work well in the optics here.
That's my issue. People could argue it's a "white savior" story, having to correct the backwards black people planet. But... the Ligonians being black was irrelevant to the story. As noted, having them be a "black planet" was a good thing because most of the time, planets were just white people. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sometimes it seems like the only acceptable way to portray an alien society with black actors is Wakanda. That's it.
Had this story made their race relevant, then... yes, I can see racism. It did not. The color of their skin has precisely zero to do with the plot. I note again, if they made the Ligonians a white planet like everything else, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The whole conversation really rubs me the wrong way because it very much feels racist in and of itself, and basically sounds like "they shouldn't have used black actors".... which... is pretty god damn racist.
Similar threads
