Cochranes First Flight

[Wingsley]

^ In TMP, Sulu reports to Kirk that V'Ger decelerated "to sub-warp speed". Whether that meant sublight speed, or if it meant Warp 0.8, is not clear. (Of course, the notion of warp factors less-than-one would only make sense if the formula for calculating FTL velocities per warp factor would allow these low numbers to still result in FTL results.

As for the ECS Fortunate, this reminds me of the other thread I have going about "A Freighter's Maximum Speed", regarding the TOS outing "Friday's Child". What is a freighter's maximum speed, in the ENT or TOS eras? Sulu said it was Warp 2. Was Sulu wrong? If so, why?

 

[Timo]

In TMP, Sulu reports to Kirk that V'Ger decelerated "to sub-warp speed". Whether that meant sublight speed, or if it meant Warp 0.8, is not clear. (Of course, the notion of warp factors less-than-one would only make sense if the formula for calculating FTL velocities per warp factor would allow these low numbers to still result in FTL results.)

Of course, the hero ship herself also is quoted as moving at "warp 0.5" or "warp 0.8" in that movie - the first for the Earth-to-Jupiter run (which is so fast as to border on FTL, depending a bit on our assumptions about the route taken), the second when Sulu first pulls back his shiny new throttle after the ship has cleared Jupiter.

Perhaps speeds between warp 0 and warp 1 are speeds achieved through warp drive but still slower than light (but quite meaningfully described as warp factors because the machinery doing the moving is the warp propulsion system). Or perhaps they are FTL speeds. We don't really have canon proof that warp 1 equals lightspeed, after all.

That is, yes, we tend to see the fancy streaks only if a ship is commanded to warp 1 or higher. But one wouldn't see fancy streaks when moving faster than light, not as the result of moving faster than light. Perhaps the streaks are an artifact of warp fields of one cochrane or higher, whereas lesser fields can still achieve FTL speeds which only cause the stars to slightly crawl until the extreme red- and blueshifts render them invisible - unless the computer controlling the viewscreen (or our TV sets) compensates.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

In principle, you could create a warp field to travel at less than light speeds.
Don't the impulse engines also use a lower level warp field to reduce the inertial mass of the ship?
I am confused. It appears that the first human warp engine to sustain and break warp 2 was of Henry Archer's design. Could others with faster engines have come from non human designs?

 

[Wingsley]

That's an interesting question. The whole premise of "First Flight" was that the overbearing Vulcans were trying to discourage the human race from joining the over Warp 2 club. It was a little heavy-handed writing, but the whole scene where Robinson was trashing the nacelle-based Cochrane warp engine, leading to a drunken brawl in the 602 Club was a propos. This was the whole underlying premise of Berman's ENTERPRISE:

"I've got faith of the heart. / I'm going where my heart will take me. / I've got faith to believe. / I can do anything. / I've got strength of the soul. / And no one's gonna bend or break me. / I can reach any star."

Archer and the NX-01 crew were out to prove that humans belonged in deep space over Vulcan objections. The whole point of the episode was that no human-built vessel had yet surpassed Warp 2 as of 2143. Now, maybe the ringship Enterprise could achieve Warp 2, but the whole point of the ep was that Earth had not surpassed it.

 

[bdb]

I've always wondered how he was planning on getting back down to Earth. The Phoenix didn't look like it was built for re-entry.

 

[Timo]

Umm, the front section looked like it was designed for that specific thing (and not much else). Heat protection tiling, bell shape for stable entry either base first or perhaps nose first, all sorts of boxes that could deploy parachutes or more probably parawings...

Why return the warp section? If Cochrane wanted to sell it, he better keep it where nobody else but the buyer can get to it. Space would be a secure location, since relatively few people or organizations would have working spaceships in the early 2060s. And the ones that did would be the ones most likely to enter a bid, so they could go collect after delivering the payment (but if they tried to do it without paying, Cochrane would just push a big red button and that'd be that).

The thing of interest here is, how did Cochrane plan on proving that he had flown FTL? His flight recorder would probably not be believed. Perhaps his two passenger seats were intended to be occupied by witnesses for the buyer - and quite possibly those witnesses were killed by the Borg, or didn't show up in time for some other reason, and Cochrane flew anyway because our heroes had convinced him that it was the right thing to do.

It is of course possible that there were enough satellites aimed at him that there'd be an impartial record to verify his claim. If a Montana hillbilly could launch a manned spacecraft, dozens of organizations probably could and would launch enough surveillance sats to keep them informed of world affairs, and of the space affairs of their competitors.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

It's possible that the phoenix was a one shot prototype, intended for a proof of concept flight only, incapable of multiple flights. After only a minute or two of warp speed the injectors and coils were fried, burned out. And someone must have forwarded Cochrane the capital and resources to build the thing in the first place. Instead of showing off for multiple potential buyers, Cochrane may have been building the Phoenix for his employer. A group of investors, or Cochrane was working for a aerospace contractor. He made it very clear he was hopeful of a sizeable pay off.

 

[Timo]

For all we know, Cochrane was working for a great number of employers, each of whom thought of himself as the sole benefactor...

Even if the engine didn't burn out (or simply exhaust its fuel) in the first-ever warp sortie, Cochrane would have done wisely to return to Earth without reactivating the experimental drive, thus avoiding undue risks. But one wonders why he made a manned test flight in the first place. The possibility of preceding unmanned test flights is not completely excluded by the dialogue, of course. Perhaps Cochrane already knew his engine worked, and this is why he was ready to risk his life on that test flight - this, and the necessity of proving the FTL feat to the buyers?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

I thought the capsule was designed to survive reentry.
I agree with T'Girl that the ship of a proof of concept or design and not created for regular warp travelling.

 

[Wingsley]

Pheonix was an experiment, a prototype. She was a one-trick pony meant to test her crude warp engine to see if it could, well, warp.

 

[Search4]

There are shuttle-tile-like markings on the underside of the capsule. One presumes they are there for a reason, and that a parachute like device could deploy from the nose. One thing is clear - they got to Montana before the Vulcans did, and i presume that means a hard landing somewhere in pretty close range.

There's no canon evidence that the Phoenix, sans the main booster, had any other propulsion system other than the warp drive. However, the physical model shows a nozzle so its a very reasonable assumption. So i'd gather they used they used this not-seen-in-use booster to take the warp section to orbit before landing.

 

[Timo]

One thing is clear - they got to Montana before the Vulcans did, and i presume that means a hard landing somewhere in pretty close range.

Or a landing in Siberia due to an explosive bolt misfiring, and then a quick amending of the situation via the transporters of the E-E.

I trust the nose capsule of the Phoenix would have been as maneuverable as any small aircraft, though. Probably powered for atmospheric flight, too. That's something we could already do today. Brake down using the heat shield first, then launch a braking parachute, then drop that an deploy a parawing and a set of jet engines or even propellers, and then fly from the entry area off the Californian or Venezuelan shores to Montana for a pinpoint landing.

There's no canon evidence that the Phoenix, sans the main booster, had any other propulsion system other than the warp drive.

Well, it was said to be accelerating before it was said to be engaging the warp drive. That must count for something.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Search4]

One thing is clear - they got to Montana before the Vulcans did, and i presume that means a hard landing somewhere in pretty close range.

Or a landing in Siberia due to an explosive bolt misfiring, and then a quick amending of the situation via the transporters of the E-E.

I trust the nose capsule of the Phoenix would have been as maneuverable as any small aircraft, though. Probably powered for atmospheric flight, too. That's something we could already do today. Brake down using the heat shield first, then launch a braking parachute, then drop that an deploy a parawing and a set of jet engines or even propellers, and then fly from the entry area off the Californian or Venezuelan shores to Montana for a pinpoint landing.

Net-net: i don't think there's a sign of a nonwarp booster at least in that shot.

There's no canon evidence that the Phoenix, sans the main booster, had any other propulsion system other than the warp drive.

Well, it was said to be accelerating before it was said to be engaging the warp drive. That must count for something.

Timo Saloniemi

The accelerating is an interesting point but I don't believe you have the sequence right. They cut off the boosters, appear to be coasting, and Cochrane says "engage". Then the nacelles are then shown flashing and Riker says "speed 20,000 kilometers per second" with the display increasing. However, the actual display seen is busy cycling from 20,000 to 21,000 and then back to 20,000 on screen.