CLONE WARS -- a negative overreaction?

[comicbookwriter]

I saw CLONE WARS last night in Times Sq in Manhattan and it was a half-empty theatre, one of the few showing the film in digital projection and it was interesting overall to see how:

1) A live audience reacted to it

and

2) All the criticism leveled at the movie from legit critics and the geeks at AICN.

I have my own problems with the Clone Wars film and I won't get too much into it because there are several review threads on here already.

However, here are my positives:

a) Pretty decent voices.
b) Gorgeous animation.
c) Characters didn't stray from their established behaviors.

Negatives:

a) The music sucked ass.
b) Not a whole lot of force powers shown.
c) We know how this all ends anyway.
d) Anakin's padawan is a little bit annoying.
e) Dialogue is geared towards kids -- and that isn't a bad thing.

I believe the true problem here is that grown men (between 25-50 years old) are trashing this film complaining that the film is too juvenile or isn't the "Star Wars" they grew up with. It won't be the damn same as the experience of growing up in the 1980s with the OT.

I believe that the world has moved past Lucas' writing skills and the employees at Lucasfilm seem to be afraid to tell him that his writing is horrible and he needs to turn over the filmmaking to new voices -- sort of like he did with the original Cartoon Network Clone Wars animated series.

But when grown men whine and complain to such a level about an animated film based on a space opera geared towards the teenage mindset to begin with, it gets ridiculous really fast.

Sure, we are all entitled to opinions, but you have to temper that with wisdom.

Was the new CLONE WARS an Oscar-winning epic?

Absolutely not.

Is this new CLONE WARS a nice way to keep younger fans interested in the franchise and explore more of the galaxy?

Absolutely.

I am beginning to believe that the Original Trilogy generation of Star Wars fans needs to either suck it up or move on and enjoy the past memories and experiences. I am realizing that I am a part of that generation and even though I love Star Wars, George Lucas owes me nothing personally and it's my choice whether I choose to spend my money on it.

I was reading all the AICN reviews and I was wondering why these guys are taking this so seriously? Its a STAR WARS CARTOON.

I love Star Wars with the best of them, but I also realize that it isn't MY creation, I am not a contemporary of George Lucas' (in the sense that he isn't going to call any of us on the phone to ask our advice on how to make his work better), and there is another option: going outside for a walk.

CLONE WARS is a nice matinée distraction for a rainy day or something to take young kids to in order to expose them to Star Wars.

It is clearly not the type of film where grown men need to post venomous treaties against considering the fact that it is only the theatrically released pilot for a cartoon series.

CBW

 

[Christopher]

I believe that the world has moved past Lucas' writing skills and the employees at Lucasfilm seem to be afraid to tell him that his writing is horrible and he needs to turn over the filmmaking to new voices -- sort of like he did with the original Cartoon Network Clone Wars animated series.

Err, he did. Although Lucas wrote the story for Star Wars: The Clone Wars, the script was written by Henry Gilroy, Steven Melching, and Scott Murphy.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Nothing Lucas can do now is more likely to keep "younger fans interested" in "Star Wars" than simply watching a DVD of the original film would be.

"The Clone Wars" is, however, more likely to separate them from about twenty bucks of their parents money. It is, as the OP notes, nothing but a tepid television cartoon released theatrically and would have deservedly sunk without a trace on any weekend in the summer moviegoing season if not for the magic label "Star Wars" plastered on the package.

And in whose interest is it to get "younger fans" interested in the SW Franchise by peddling "Chocolate-Coated-Sugar-Bomb-Star-Wars" cartoons to them anyway?

Treating this kind of sub-standard production as a gateway drug enticing the kiddies to move on and smoke the crack of the over-produced modern "Star Wars" movies et al doubtless keeps the accountants at Lucasfilm purring but so what? Neither popular culture nor Western Civilization would be ill-served if Lucas just Cut This Shit Out Right Now.

 

[DarKush]

I just saw this film. It's a fairly run of the mill story, average and not up to the best of the Clone Wars cartoons and definitely not up to the best of the CW novels or Dark Horse's Republic comic book series, which covered the CW.

However, I think the massive negative reaction is a bit much. It doesn't do anything to sink Star Wars. Unfortunately it doesn't do much to elevate Star Wars either. And I think Ashoka Tano is much more tolerable than Jar Jar Binks and Jake Lloyd's Anakin if GL's goal is to bring in younger viewers.

 

[comicbookwriter]

I believe that the world has moved past Lucas' writing skills and the employees at Lucasfilm seem to be afraid to tell him that his writing is horrible and he needs to turn over the filmmaking to new voices -- sort of like he did with the original Cartoon Network Clone Wars animated series.

Err, he did. Although Lucas wrote the story for Star Wars: The Clone Wars, the script was written by Henry Gilroy, Steven Melching, and Scott Murphy.

Have you ever seen any of the in-house Skywalker Ranch documentaries about the process of creating Star Wars media?

You have a bunch of people talking about how much work it is and then you have a few shots of George overriding whatever decisions are made. Then, you get a montage of shots talking about how "George gets whatever George wants" and so on.

With the first Clone Wars series, done by the creator of SAMURAI JACK (Genndy Tartovksy or something like that) you could clearly see that Genndy was allowed to experiment with the Star Wars world in ways that are not apparent in the new Clone Wars movie.

In the first few eps of the original Clone Wars cartoon, you had entire episodes with no dialogue, episodes with Clone Troopers alone, Mace Windu using the force in ways never before seen in any Star Wars movie, and a host of other little moments that didn't seem as contrived as Lucas' typical style of storytelling.

Whether or not George physically wrote the screenplay, his "imprint" is all over the new CLONE WARS movie:

-unoriginal action scenes (how many times can we watch clones shoot at robots?)
-juvenile dialogue
-no real use of the force in imaginative ways
-racially bizarre characters (Jabba's uncle -- you will see what I mean)
-characters created too appeal to very young teens (Ashoka)

And despite this it wasn't as bad as the geeks at AICN are saying.

But to say that Lucas handed over the storytelling to someone else simply isn't true just because his name isn't listed as screenwriter on the credits. Those in the business say that Richard Marquand didn't really direct ROTJ and that Lucas did. Hence, the shaky quality of ROTJ.

The only time Lucas backed off almost completely was with EMPIRE. And we know how that one turned out.

CBW

 

[comicbookwriter]

Nothing Lucas can do now is more likely to keep "younger fans interested" in "Star Wars" than simply watching a DVD of the original film would be.

"The Clone Wars" is, however, more likely to separate them from about twenty bucks of their parents money. It is, as the OP notes, nothing but a tepid television cartoon released theatrically and would have deservedly sunk without a trace on any weekend in the summer moviegoing season if not for the magic label "Star Wars" plastered on the package.

And in whose interest is it to get "younger fans" interested in the SW Franchise by peddling "Chocate-Coated-Sugar-Bomb-Star-Wars" cartoons to them anyway?

Treating this kind of sub-standard production as a gateway drug enticing the kiddies to move on and smoke the crack of the over-produced modern "Star Wars" movies et al doubtless keeps the accountants at Lucasfilm purring but so what? Neither popular culture nor Western Civilization would be ill-served if Lucas just Cut This Shit Out Right Now.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

Great post.

I will disagree on one point -- younger kids don't seem to like the Original Trilogy at all. To them it looks "old."

I know this because I am a school teacher, and a few years back, I taught middle school (6-8th grades, 10-13 year olds overall) and I tried to expose them to the Episode IV and they were totally bored to tears by it. The pacing on ANH is very slow compared to the rest of the series because it spends a lot of time setting up Tatooine and Luke's situation.

Kids today have built-in ADHD for anything that isn't a music video or Disney Channel series.

I would actually say that kids will definitely enjoy this new CLONE WARS, and the adult crowd I saw it with in Times Sq in NYC also seemed to like it. The theatre probrably had like 200 people in it, and more than half clapped when it was over.

The kids in the audience didn't fidget or talk like they usually do at a later show and I noticed that they were very relaxed. I really do believe this movie will grab the teens and pre-teens way more than grown men.

CBW

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wait a minute. *Gorgeous* animation?

For a computer game circa 1992, maybe. I would hardly call this kind of animation "gorgeous".

The kind of CGI that was used in the PT? I'd call *that* gorgeous. Not this, though.

 

[zenophite]

The negative reaction is a reflection of the pent up anger that many fans have to not only this latest product, but to the developments in the Star wars area over the last decade or so. I guess folks are just tired of being disappointed with something they treasure from their childhood and feel should be better.

 

[Messianni]

The negative reaction is a reflection of the pent up anger that many fans have to not only this latest product, but to the developments in the Star wars area over the last decade or so. I guess folks are just tired of being disappointed with something they treasure from their childhood and feel should be better.

Exactly. Basically, it's not Episodes 7, 8 and 9.

I can't say I plan on seeing it, waiting until I can rent it on Netflix. I already planned this before all this negative hype and really, all the backlash has done nothing to change that.

 

[Small White Car]

But when grown men whine and complain to such a level about an animated film based on a space opera geared towards the teenage mindset to begin with, it gets ridiculous really fast.

WALL-E is a cartoon about space robots aimed at 7 year olds. (In other words, far younger than the teens and pre-teens that Star Wars is aimed at.)

And what do adults think of it?

Wall-E vs. The Clone Wars.

Say what you will about critics, but those are mostly the same people in those 2 groups. In other words, it doesn't matter if you agree of disagree with their opinions, the fact that the numbers are different proves that this argument doesn't hold water.

If it's possible to make something for 7 year olds that adults like, it should be possible to impress teens without alienating adults.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

My 10 year old really liked it, and I did too. It was nice to see new Star Wars, in a time when Id have bet that none more was comming.

 

[comicbookwriter]

But when grown men whine and complain to such a level about an animated film based on a space opera geared towards the teenage mindset to begin with, it gets ridiculous really fast.

WALL-E is a cartoon about space robots aimed at 7 year olds. (In other words, far younger than the teens and pre-teens that Star Wars is aimed at.)

And what do adults think of it?

Wall-E vs. The Clone Wars.

Say what you will about critics, but those are mostly the same people in those 2 groups. In other words, it doesn't matter if you agree of disagree with their opinions, the fact that the numbers are different proves that this argument doesn't hold water.

If it's possible to make something for 7 year olds that adults like, it should be possible to impress teens without alienating adults.

Without spoiling anything WALL-E also has something to say about humanity and the condition of the planet whereas CLONE WARS is a part of an established franchise where there are far too many grown men expecting a series aimed at kids to give them the same feelings of fun and adventure that they had when they were kids.

This 80s nostalgia boom (that I am very much a part of) is killing the sense of wonder that people could have by expecting something to recreate past feelings of excitement out of context.

I was 3 when episode IV came out, 6 for Empire, and 10 for ROTJ.

There is nothing on earth that can take me back to that.

Just because all these critics can find journalistic and comprehensive ways to communicate their frustration at the lack of emotional resonance from their early years doesn't mean the work itself is inferior.

As I have stated before, CLONE WARS isn't horrible. It just isn't for our generation.

CBW

 

[Misfit Toy]

My 10 year old really liked it, and I did too. It was nice to see new Star Wars, in a time when Id have bet that none more was comming.

Same here, but my kid is 12.

I also think that a lot of people are forgetting how many fans felt about Return of the Jedi - with the kid-friendly Ewoks, not to mention the Star Wars crackers, cookies, cereals, underwear, the Droids cartoons, the Ewok TV movies...

Star Wars has been geared towards kids for a very long time. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I will disagree on one point -- younger kids don't seem to like the Original Trilogy at all. To them it looks "old."

I'm a little surprised by that, and maybe a little dubious as to how generally true it may be. I do know youngsters who like them fine.

And FWIW, nobody "raped my childhood" - I was in my twenties when "Star Wars" premiered. Liked the first one, liked the second a lot, was a little disappointed with the third one.

After we went to see "Revenge Of The Jedi" one of my kids wanted to see the originals, so I went out and bought the Special Editions without a second thought - though if I had my druthers I'd druther own a copy of "Star Wars" as I saw it in May of 1977, the CG Jabba in the SE is kind of a hoot and they sure did clean up those landspeeder scenes and that firecracker Alderaan explosion good.

So I don't think I ever had the fannish investment in it that a lot of folks do (and that I certainly have in, oh, say "Star Trek") and I don't think my low regard for what Lucas has done lately was caused by dashed hopes or frustrated expectations. I just think he makes visually lavish, pretty, and aimlessly dull movies now, as sequels to a couple of really really cool movies he made when he was young.

 

[comicbookwriter]

I will disagree on one point -- younger kids don't seem to like the Original Trilogy at all. To them it looks "old."

I'm a little surprised by that, and maybe a little dubious as to how generally true it may be. I do know youngsters who like them fine.

Well for one, I am not making that up. I am a teacher. And I showed it to various classes of children of different races, religions and socio-economic backgrounds.

Most of them just felt that it looked dated and moved too slow. They didn't understand what the big deal about it was.

Its cool for you to be "dubious" about my story, but for the record, I don't need to make up stories or tell lies in order to make my point. Thanks.

CBW

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Its cool for you to be "dubious" about my story, but for the record, I don't need to make up stories or tell lies in order to make my point. Thanks.

CBW

Be clear - I didn't say that I was "dubious about your story" but that I was surprised by it. I expressed skepticism as to how representative your experience might be, as have several other posters based on their own experiences - and regardless of how your livelihood informs your interactions with kids, that much is fair and has nothing to do with suggesting that you're "making up stories" or lying. I did neither, nor did I intend to.

 

[DarthPipes]

I saw it yesterday and I enjoyed it. It didn't reinvent the wheel or anything but I do agree there's been a tremendous amount of negative overreaction over this film. Some of it is automatic kneejerk reaction to hating Lucas and the prequels.

 

[zenophite]

Most of them just felt that it looked dated and moved too slow. They didn't understand what the big deal about it was.

Its cool for you to be "dubious" about my story, but for the record, I don't need to make up stories or tell lies in order to make my point. Thanks. CBW

That's not surprising considering that comparable "spectacle" movies come out so frequently nowadays.

I saw it yesterday and I enjoyed it. It didn't reinvent the wheel or anything but I do agree there's been a tremendous amount of negative overreaction over this film. Some of it is automatic kneejerk reaction to hating Lucas and the prequels.

In terms of Lucas himself i just find it ironic that such pap comes from the production stable owned by a guy who once made a big show of saying in an interview that a "special effect without a good story is a pretty boring thing".
He certainly proved himself right.

 

[thumbtack]

I liked the gay Hutt. Though it wasn't a very flattering portrayal, and I fear that gay Hutts everywhere may protest this movie, just as retards are currently protesting Tropic Thunder.

On a more ominous note, I think this movie reveals just how tiny the budget for the live action Star Wars series is going to be. It's going to make those Ewok telefilms look like Lawrence of Arabia.

 

[The Old Mixer]

there are far too many grown men expecting a series aimed at kids to give them the same feelings of fun and adventure that they had when they were kids.

...

Just because all these critics can find journalistic and comprehensive ways to communicate their frustration at the lack of emotional resonance from their early years doesn't mean the work itself is inferior.

Nor does it mean that it isn't. I'm sick of the "childhood nostalgia" factor being the catch-all excuse for the inferior product that is being peddled under a brand name that was established by a couple of groundbreaking films that were enjoyed by all ages. There are more things that I enjoyed in my childhood that I can't make myself watch now than not. The Star Wars films grew with me. I came to appreciate aspects of them that I hadn't as a kid. If they'd been poorly-realized kiddie films whose only appeal was a sense of childhood nostalgia, they would have gotten old with me very quickly on home video.

My sense of fun and adventure was alive and well when I saw LOTR and the first couple Spidey films...and even in a few parts of the PT. But the PT just didn't deliver on that consistently.