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Spoilers Classic Race All But Confirmed

XCV330 said:
Ultimately Khan was manufactured. He's an augment, and there's no telling what his genetic mix might have been, regardless of his name.
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One does not need to be an augment to have a different ethnic background than the name one carrys. Plenty of Europeans with an African or Indian ancestor lurking in the past.
A real life English royal will have a black granny next Spring and might look as white as his/her father.
 
Nyotarules said:
But a Mexican born man with Spanish parents is??? Khan was whitewashed from the beginning.
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Not the point at all. The point was that Kurtzman and company lied repeatedly when promoting the movie.
Ron Nasty said:
How does trying to keep a plot point a secret equal "torpedoing their credibility"? They don't owe us a point by point breakdown of the script/novel/comic/whatever prior to the product's release. They are allowed misdirection and out right lies to keep things under wraps. Fans need to stop being pouty babies demanding candy.
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Misdirection =/= blatantly lying. And the result is, I won't believe a word they say in interviews going forward, because I know they'll blatantly lie if they think it'll help them.
 
I'm thinking that the degree of a lie being told by a TV/Movie Producer about a show or movie to keep something a secret, is waaaay down on my list of things to get upset over.
Especially when said lie, was pretty much known from the start to be such.

I'm personally not going to hold onto something like that for years, just to be able to bring it up at a later date too try and prove an insignificant point to some folks on a BBS.
YMMV
 
Ron Nasty said:
How does trying to keep a plot point a secret equal "torpedoing their credibility"? They don't owe us a point by point breakdown of the script/novel/comic/whatever prior to the product's release. They are allowed misdirection and out right lies to keep things under wraps. Fans need to stop being pouty babies demanding candy.
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Pretty much, yes. It's the same as changing the name of a production to "Blue Harvest" instead of "Revenge of the Jedi/Return of the Jedi." It's part of the job, and doesn't impact their credibility in my eyes.
 
King Daniel Beyond said:
Not the point at all. The point was that Kurtzman and company lied repeatedly when promoting the movie.

Misdirection =/= blatantly lying. And the result is, I won't believe a word they say in interviews going forward, because I know they'll blatantly lie if they think it'll help them.
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As I said, they are entitled to blatantly lie to protect the plot of their project. There is nothing wrong with that. We aren't entitled to the "truth" until we watch the finished project. We need to get over ourselves and stop going OTT over not getting the full story from interviews and other promotional materials.
 
Ron Nasty said:
As I said, they are entitled to blatantly lie to protect the plot of their project. There is nothing wrong with that. We aren't entitled to the "truth" until we watch the finished project. We need to get over ourselves and stop going OTT over not getting the full story from interviews and other promotional materials.
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Ron Nasty said:
As I said, they are entitled to blatantly lie to protect the plot of their project. There is nothing wrong with that. We aren't entitled to the "truth" until we watch the finished project. We need to get over ourselves and stop going OTT over not getting the full story from interviews and other promotional materials.
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Truth be told, we are not entitled to anything when it comes to the BTS stuff. They could keep it all under wraps and simply release the episodes.
 
Ron Nasty said:
As I said, they are entitled to blatantly lie to protect the plot of their project. There is nothing wrong with that. We aren't entitled to the "truth" until we watch the finished project. We need to get over ourselves and stop going OTT over not getting the full story from interviews and other promotional materials.
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And following their behaviour in the past, I am not entitled to believe a word they say.:)
 
grendelsbayne said:
I think Pike having more experience with the Talosians than just what was seen in the Cage makes sense, in light of the present day parts of the Menagerie. And as others have said, the Cage isn't exactly a solid foundation from which to build the idea that visiting the Talosians is worthy of a death sentence, either. So there is room to fill in some gaps with a good story.
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Strongly agreed. As "The Cage" concludes, there's plenty of unfinished business between the Talosians and Pike, or between the Talosians and Starfleet. At the conclusion of "The Menagerie" , there ought to be lots as well, but Kirk behaves as if none existed. Perhaps a lot of stuff was sorted out in between?

I mean, Pike ought to be concerned about saving Vina and Talos and potential future kidnap victims alike. Does he give up on Vina and solve the other two issues with quarantine, hoping that the Talosians will die in isolation soon enough? Or does he only resort to the latter when an attempt at busting Vina out fails?

Pike in DSC seems to be able to throw his weight around. Even if he were the last choice of Starfleet for dealing with the Talosians again, he could no doubt do it on his own. Or perhaps he has already done that, and earned his reputation for greatness that way (it shouldn't follow from his "The Cage" antics yet)?

For all we know, Talos in DSC is a flashback. But it could be a flashback to events other than those described in "The Cage".

Timo Saloniemi
 
Serveaux said:
Well, of course the explanation is pure bullshit: they looked that way because someone thought changing them was a good idea, and now they don't look that way because the idea bombed.
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Meh - it's the same level of 'bullshit' explanation for the Klingon look changes from ST:TMP onward in Star Trek.
 
Ron Nasty said:
How does trying to keep a plot point a secret equal "torpedoing their credibility"? They don't owe us a point by point breakdown of the script/novel/comic/whatever prior to the product's release. They are allowed misdirection and out right lies to keep things under wraps. Fans need to stop being pouty babies demanding candy.
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Exactly. It's show-biz. A certain degree of misdirection and ballyhoo comes with the territory. We are not entitled to full transparency when it comes to upcoming productions.

Hell, when I writing THE DARK KNIGHT RISES novelization, I lied to to my own friends and family about what I was working on and let them think I was just writing another STAR TREK novel. Nothing personal. Just business.
 
Greg Cox said:
Exactly. It's show-biz. A certain degree of misdirection and ballyhoo comes with the territory. We are not entitled to full transparency when it comes to upcoming productions.

Hell, when I writing THE DARK KNIGHT RISES novelization, I lied to to my own friends and family about what I was working on and let them think I was just writing another STAR TREK novel. Nothing personal. Just business.
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I always get a good chuckle out of the "THOZE LYING BASTIDS!!!1!1!" crew.
 
Greg Cox said:
Hell, when I writing THE DARK KNIGHT RISES novelization, I lied to to my own friends and family about what I was working on and let them think I was just writing another STAR TREK novel. Nothing personal. Just business.
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