Chick-fil-A digging themselves a hole

[Gov Kodos]

And any of this has what that justifies CFA's contributing to ant-gay organizations? Any of this has what to do with opposing protest against such activities? Both of which you are evidently strongly of- justifying CFA's activities, and condemning those that oppose them.

 

[gturner]

But everyone here contributes to anti-gay causes, just by paying taxes, driving a car, or using the Internet. That's where your money goes. Somehow activists picked a target (almost at random based on either anti-gay spending or actual impact on gay rights) because he was espousing Baptist principles in public and someone decided to silence him as an example to others. Someone found him offensive.

Thousands of other people contributed far more to anti-gay marriage causes than he has, and some contributed a hundred times more. The LA Times listed their names and zip codes. Thousands of names and zipcodes. Some probably really, really hate gays. No one has yet provided a link that establishes that Cathy even dislikes them. He disagrees with them about marriage, but so did Obama till a few months ago. So did Clinton his entire two terms. And good luck finding a straight 85-year old Baptist CEO who thinks gays are the best bet for a stable owner-operator of a high-pressure franchise.

A logical step would've been to plead with some of the big donors who were partially sympathetic or vulnerable to pressure. Cathy was neither big nor vulnerable. He doesn't live in LA, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, or New York, and hardly does business there. He's 85 years old and set in his ways. He wildly unlikely to self-destruct in a sex-scandal like so many televangelists, and he gives massive amounts to orphanages and summer camps. There's no dirt to dig up or you'd have already found it. All he did was donate a tiny fraction of his money to causes supported by about half the US population and probably 80% of the people his age.

The activists were willing to harm hundreds of real gays without a second thought, and are harming them, to poke at someone who hasn't harmed any gays. They still can't provide a single example of him firing a gay, and even the wildly incorrect claims about his donations would stil mean zero votes were affected. That means he's done as much real, measurable harm to gays as the average pre-schooler, or my cat.

They did this just because they had already become an angry, self-righteous lynch mob that wouldn't be satisfied till they tasted blood. Angry lynch mobs are notoriously stupid and very often self-defeating, doing more harm to innocent people and supporters than the person they're trying to hang, who is usually the wrong person anyway. The mob emotes, feeds itself misinformation, strikes out at anyone that tries to restore sanity and perspective, and the members keep each other agitated with unreasoning anger until it eventually burns itself out.

So if you've ever wondered what goes on in the heads of people in a lynch mob, well now you know.

And of course, being part of the mob you'll attack me as being opposed to gay rights and strike out in furious anger. That's the problem with being part of the mob. If someone tries to point you to the actual perpetrator you just get angrier because you think someone is trying to distract you from the person you want to lynch. If someone points out that the girl you thought had been attacked was actually eating pie at her grandmother's house, you'll accuse them of trying to cover up the crime and being in league with the murderer. If someone points out that you've just run over three pedestrians, you'll argue that they shouldn't have gotten in the way of a critically important manhunt. If someone points out that the target has an airtight alibi, you'll dismiss it as irrelevant and get even more intently focused.

People call a lynch mob unreasoning because it is.

 

[Gov Kodos]

None of which answers why its OK for CFA to funnel money to anti-gay organizations and thus speak out against homosexuals, and why it is wrong for folks to speak out against such actions.

 

[Trekker4747]

It seems, also, that all of those gay supporters of CFA also missed the point of why people were protesting them. And isn't protesting CFA also a Freedom of Speech? Granted, the city leaders wanting to deny CFAs building rights is wrong, but the public response to CFA on the anti-side has been exactly what Freedom of Speech is meant to do. I wonder if those homosexual supporters of CFA really knew what their money is being used for.

 

[BillJ]

None of which answers why its OK for CFA to funnel money to anti-gay organizations and thus speak out against homosexuals, and why it is wrong for folks to speak out against such actions.

Neither thing is wrong.

Chick-Fil-A can spend their money however they like as long as they're not breaking laws and people are free to call them on it.

But sometimes people pick the wrong target to express their displeasure. With how well Chick-Fil-A has weathered the storm, it may embolden other people and organizations who are opposed to gay rights.

gturner is likely right in his assessment that this wasn't the best target for boycott.

 

[Gov Kodos]

None of which answers why its OK for CFA to funnel money to anti-gay organizations and thus speak out against homosexuals, and why it is wrong for folks to speak out against such actions.

Neither thing is wrong.

Chick-Fil-A can spend their money however they like as long as they're not breaking laws and people are free to call them on it.

But sometimes people pick the wrong target to express their displeasure. With how well Chick-Fil-A has weathered the storm, it may embolden other people and organizations who are opposed to gay rights.

gturner is likely right in his assessment that this wasn't the best target for boycott.

His opinion is that those opposed to CFA's policies are nothing but a lynch mob. The people advocating for equal rights of homosexuals are the ones who are to be vilified according to gturner. Whether they might have found better means to protest CFA's activities, to say that the protest against bigotry that was advocated was bad in itself is blaming the victims of CFA's support of homophobic policies.

 

[Misfit Toy]

None of which answers why its OK for CFA to funnel money to anti-gay organizations and thus speak out against homosexuals, and why it is wrong for folks to speak out against such actions.

Neither thing is wrong.

Chick-Fil-A can spend their money however they like as long as they're not breaking laws and people are free to call them on it.

But sometimes people pick the wrong target to express their displeasure. With how well Chick-Fil-A has weathered the storm, it may embolden other people and organizations who are opposed to gay rights.

gturner is likely right in his assessment that this wasn't the best target for boycott.

They're the right target for MY boycott. I don't speak for anyone other than myself - and I won't be spending my $$ with CFA.

 

[Peacemaker]

Somehow activists picked a target (almost at random based on either anti-gay spending or actual impact on gay rights) because he was espousing Baptist principles in public and someone decided to silence him as an example to others. Someone found him offensive.

1. For at least the twelfth time, it's not just what he said that is in view.
2. The reason that what he has said is the straw that broke the camel's back among the gay community in particular is that we've known about it for years, and yet, we have collectively been, basically looked at by many as a bunch of conspiracy theorists (and posts like yours now take that treatment to the next level by now moving it from that to "well he told the truth, now x, y, z to lecture you about how wrong you are anyway.). Why have we been looked at this way by the dominant culture around us? Because Cathy has flat out denied it, as recently as a year and a half ago. Yes, that's right the man who told the truth to Baptist Press is the same man who lied about this to our press and the general secular press in the past. We were told, essentially "Well, he said he didn't but we kinda think he did, so go find out the truth, and then we'll believe you." Baptist Press found out for us. We then say, "Aha, Told ya!' NOW will you believe us? This is what we said was true all along; this is why we don't like CFA and have been informally boycotting them for years and asking you all to follow suit!" But then you come along and tell us, "Well, okay, but you're still wrong." That's what is really fucked up about this situation. The conservative side then gets to boycott JC Penney, Starbucks, General Mills, and all kinds of businesses and conservatives say nary a word negatively about that, but when we speak up about CFA, we get shouted down about how wrong we are about it, and then they go and rub our noses in it buy forming lines to buy chicken sandwiches fer Jesus - and we say we're offended by that, people like you come along and tell us we should just suck it up. You're really just an internet version of the schoolyard bully, and when we come in here as we have and fight back, you try whining to the teacher about how mean we are to you, because you're cool, you party with gay people. To quote Locutus, "Boo-fucking hoo."

 

[Peacemaker]

They'd probably get beat up and ostracized by other gays.

Really? So now, we've moved from isolated acts of vandalism to accusing gays of viewpoint suppression to viewpoint suppression via gay on gay violence to ostracism.

And in the third link above, a gay man who supports Chick-Fil-A said:

One man on August 3rd sent me a message on Facebook and called me a "pathetic, ignorant little child" followed by some curse words and telling me "the gloves are off." Essentially he was ready to fight over an article I posted that disagreed with his opinion. There were others like his. Telling me I was ignorant, didn't get the issue, wasn't a true gay. It makes me shake my head. These people would have me be part of a movement who's most prominent mission currently is to achieve both marriage equality and acceptance by everyone for everyone. Ironically they also are the ones who are attacking me personally for the simple reason that my views are different than theirs. Furthermore it must mean that hate gays, that I hate myself that I hate equality. No.......not at all. I've been openly gay for a while now and closeted for some time before that. In all that time I have not once faced the kind of personal attacks that I have in the past two days. I have befriended Christians, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Atheists, Liberals, Republicans, Tea Partiers, Occupiers, Asians, Caucasians, African Americans, Hispanics, and the list goes on. In all of those conversations not once has anyone hated me the way strangers have after this article.

So, yeah. It's already happening and it's utterly vicious. Gay teens working at Chick-Fil-A will be going through the same thing, which is very sad and was totally unnecessary.

Yeah, Gurl, and one of my friends got a post from a Christian like that too. I got one from a Christian during the fight over Amendment One in NC. One of my HIV positive friends has received even more vicious posts.

So, in the world of tit-for-tat on the internet, that evens up the ante. Quoting internet trolls cuts both ways. You're the one arguing that there's going to be gay on gay violence and public ostracism. Yes, the Pink Mafia is going to come get you; you'll be dragged by jackbooted drag queens from you home and forced into submission. We've already been given a preview of the Drag Queen Revolt.

 

[BillJ]

None of which answers why its OK for CFA to funnel money to anti-gay organizations and thus speak out against homosexuals, and why it is wrong for folks to speak out against such actions.

Neither thing is wrong.

Chick-Fil-A can spend their money however they like as long as they're not breaking laws and people are free to call them on it.

But sometimes people pick the wrong target to express their displeasure. With how well Chick-Fil-A has weathered the storm, it may embolden other people and organizations who are opposed to gay rights.

gturner is likely right in his assessment that this wasn't the best target for boycott.

They're the right target for MY boycott. I don't speak for anyone other than myself - and I won't be spending my $$ with CFA.

Well we have them sprinkled throughout our area and I got a breakfast biscuit at one about three to five years ago. So me boycotting them is probably pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things since I never planned on eating there again after eating the rather bland biscuit.

But, this was a company that has always been pretty open about its 'principles' and does its strongest business in conservative areas. I think the only thing the boycott did was to strengthen their conservative credentials in those areas they already thrive in. If their best business was done in Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Boston, a boycott might have hit them in their wallet to the point they cried uncle.

 

[PopBoy]

Can I just say this is a fascinating read. It truly is interesting to read how rights, society and politics encounter the corporate American system. It makes me wonder whether such clash would, or could, occur in the British or Western European context.

 

[gturner]

Oh, I'd totally forgot about something that's probably relevant to the Christian chicken situation.

Years ago I programmed the smart conveyor system in the world's largest frozen chicken freezer in Pittsburg Texas, run by Bo Pilgrim who founded Pilgrim's Pride. If you eat Wendy's, KFC, White Castle, Stouffers, or probably a hundred other processed chicken products, you're eating Pilgrim's Pride Chicken. It is the largest poultry company in the United States, ahead of Tyson, Purdue, and Sanderson, which collectively control 60% of the chicken market.

Bo is a bit quirky, having been an orphan and starting his company when he was 17 as a chicken feed mill. He gave the feed to the chicken farmers in return for the chickens and some money, then he'd sell the chickens to companies like Campbell's soup. His operation grew and grew until pretty much the entire town of Pittsburg (just east of Dallas) worked for him, as do many other towns. He became the largest chicken processor in the US.

He's also a bit quirky. I only had to sit in on a few board meetings with him, but every morning we'd see this old man mowing the lawn around the plant on a big John Deere tracker. After some weeks the executives mentioned "Oh, that's Bo. He likes to mow." One day at lunch we saw a black lady broke down on the side of the road, and sure enough, there was Bo pulled over checking out the engine for her.

But Bo had other quirks. He owned a huge house with statues of himself in the yard. Eventually he put a giant bust of himself in front of the facility (which you can see in the first line if you do a Google image search for Bo Pilgrim). Some on the board thought it was self-aggrandizement and sinful, but the VP of Engineering told me "By G-d, Bo built this company, and if he wants that John Deere tractor spinning around on top of his hat, I'll build that, too!" Sometimes the Bushes (yes, those) would spend the night at his house.

The other thing about Bo is that he probably makes Cathy look like an apolitical agnostic. He's gotten in trouble for giving massive dollars to Texas Republicans, for things like fighting workman's compensation laws, where he apparently walked through the Senate handing out $10,000 checks. When I was there the head of maintenance told me about one of the townsfolk who'd lost eight fingers in chicken processing saws - one at a time. Finally the guy sued for some compensation, but in that town all the jurors work for Bo, or their family members do, so they awarded him something like $8,000. The guy got less than Bo handed to each Republican state senator to block workman's comp.

Bo mows lawns, buys politicians, and spends millions on fundamentalist religious causes.

Side note: As soon as they got the -60F blast freezer working, he loaded up his elderly Sunday school group in golf carts and coats and gave them a tour of it. As the big overhead door lifted and the little golf carts drove into Arctic temperatures, I turned to another programmer and said, "Doesn't this remind of you of the scene from Jurassic Park?"

Anyway, his company had to file bankruptcy due to too much debt from their acquisition of Gold Kist foods, which Bo said was a business move "ordained by God."

http://shrinkingthecamel.com/2008/11/05/bo-pilgrims-mission-from-god-backfires/

If you're not eating a Chick-Fil-A sandwich (not sure if they use Pilgrim's Pride, Tyson, or some other company), you're probably eating Bo's chicken. He's probably far worse than Cathy. Just Google around.

 

[doubleohfive]

Hot damn, gturner. Slow down! It's hard keeping up with you the way you move goalposts so fast...

I'd like to ask you one simple question though.

What right do you (or anyone else) have to tell anyone else how to live their lives? What right do you have to condemn someone else because of who they love?

I don't personally believe ANYBODY has that right, and I've yet to hear anything close to a reasoned or convincing reason to support such behavior. This is why I don't take you seriously, or your arguments in this thread seriously. This is why I think Dan Cathy and all those religious nutjobs who support his actions are selfish, hateful bigots. Nobody has ever been able to answer this question beyond referring back to the Bible - an ancient document told and retold and then written and rewritten throughout the ages, as if none of them are able to think for themselves. Fuck that.

So go ahead, tell me. Who gives you this right to dictate to any other living person who they should love or be able to marry? I honestly want to know, because as it stands, there's nothing that can be said that will trump the answer of "No one".

Because here's the thing: I don't give two shits if you or Dan Cathy or any of the religious right disagree with equal marriage. I don't care if you think it's a sin or if it's unnatural. You are free to think whatever ass-backward thoughts you want to think. I'd prefer we were all a little more decent and reasoned, but whatever. Years of watching the GOP and the religious extreme have left me cynical.

No, the only problem I have is when you take YOUR beliefs, YOUR standards, and YOUR faith and try to impose it on other people.

That is NOT a right any person should have over another.

That is not a right any group should have over another.

Until you nutjobs on the right can find a way around that, you're going to hear all kinds of protests, all kinds of complaints and it is the right of those people protesting and complaining to make those protests and complaints heard, because we're supposed to live in a country where there's a clear and defined separation between the church and state and we're also supposed to be living in a country where there is freedom from persecution based on race, creed, or orientation.

 

[Trekker4747]

Oh, I'd totally forgot about something that's probably relevant to the Christian chicken situation...

There's going to be a permanent palm-shaped mark on my face now.

 

[PopBoy]

Hot damn, gturner. Slow down! It's hard keeping up with you the way you move goalposts so fast...

I'd like to ask you one simple question though.

What right do you (or anyone else) have to tell anyone else how to live their lives? What right do you have to condemn someone else because of who they love?

I don't personally believe ANYBODY has that right, and I've yet to hear anything close to a reasoned or convincing reason to support such behavior. This is why I don't take you seriously, or your arguments in this thread seriously. This is why I think Dan Cathy and all those religious nutjobs who support his actions are selfish, hateful bigots. Nobody has ever been able to answer this question beyond referring back to the Bible - an ancient document told and retold and then written and rewritten throughout the ages, as if none of them are able to think for themselves. Fuck that.

So go ahead, tell me. Who gives you this right to dictate to any other living person who they should love or be able to marry? I honestly want to know, because as it stands, there's nothing that can be said that will trump the answer of "No one".

Because here's the thing: I don't give two shits if you or Dan Cathy or any of the religious right disagree with equal marriage. I don't care if you think it's a sin or if it's unnatural. You are free to think whatever ass-backward thoughts you want to think. I'd prefer we were all a little more decent and reasoned, but whatever. Years of watching the GOP and the religious extreme have left me cynical.

No, the only problem I have is when you take YOUR beliefs, YOUR standards, and YOUR faith and try to impose it on other people.

That is NOT a right any person should have over another.

That is not a right any group should have over another.

Until you nutjobs on the right can find a way around that, you're going to hear all kinds of protests, all kinds of complaints and it is the right of those people protesting and complaining to make those protests and complaints heard, because we're supposed to live in a country where there's a clear and defined separation between the church and state and we're also supposed to be living in a country where there is freedom from persecution based on race, creed, or orientation.

What you said.

 

[Balrog]

Not many people know this, but The Mormons control Big Mutton. They're in it with the Swedish Mafia.

 

[cooleddie74]

So that explains all those odd commercials on the old Donny and Marie daytime talk show!

 

[PopBoy]

Not many people know this, but The Mormons control Big Mutton. They're in it with the Swedish Mafia.

Did someone saaaaaaay Swedish House Mafia!?!?!?

http://youtu.be/hBRKSIj2tMc

 

[PopBoy]

Anyway, not to add fire to flame (excuse the pun, etc, etc)

i do worry about america: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe2_1344302785

I worry a lot.

Sigh.

 

[doubleohfive]

Anyway, not to add fire to flame (excuse the pun, etc, etc)

i do worry about america: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe2_1344302785

I worry a lot.

Sigh.

What a fucking moron. He sets fire to something and can't put it out so his next reaction is to panic and run away?

Classy. Real classy.